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MrSteele

Update on Dash Colors...OR, Rebuild status

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MrSteele

Well, the paint may have to wait. What I found when the bevel gear box came apart for inspection inside was a ruined input bevel gear, of course the needle and front ball bearing and seal, other seals could be reused, but, that ain't going to happen. Decided on new bearings and seals throughout the case. While down, went with looking at the steering gear also. A new bushing might make the pinion gear a little more stable on the eccentric pin. There is .018 wear, about half on the pin and in the bushing. A new bushing will take up about half. Bushing from Motion Industries is about $3 bucks, not much extra in the scheme of things! A new flexible disc on each end of the drive shaft will go back also. While it is off, likely going to put new needle bearings in the mid mount PTO works. 

Paint. Least of my worries. I will restore mechanically, and have no good idea as yet what that will cost in parts. Not certain I can afford a few rattlecans of paint to make it pretty after I get parts prices! Painting appears limited to reduce corrosion on certain parts. I have cleaned the frame for paint in places, so will have to take care of those spots.

And the cause of it all? The lock bolt on the end of the input bevel gear shaft, backed out about 1/4". I can assume that it allowed too much bearing play in the front bearings. Considering boring across the hub to install a roll pin. At the least, a good dose of Loctite will be on all bolts inside.

The attached pic of the frame also has a couple other projects in it, which is why funds are kinda short for the tractor at this time. It is resting on a early 60s Merry Tiller waiting for the engine in the shop, which is beside a new Snapper for my grandson, which is resting on the deck of an Ariens I am working on because an old friend(84 years old), wants to see his old tractor run again. But, you cannot see the 64 Simplicity in the way background, that I am sneaking a few parts in during this rebuild. Please do not tell my wife! That spot of orange behind the trailer...Shhh

5bd73e3b4ec2e_Steeringgear.thumb.jpg.eeec1e1e06d15d60f1f0973b27515e67.jpg5bd73dc1922c3_PreppedFrame.thumb.jpg.ededde95e58d7d1b8ab041aeeb32af2b.jpg5bd73d94f05a6_Bevelgear.thumb.jpg.624031f68ef462eef2611d7dd1c44045.jpg

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Chris727

Nice. I have been going through a B-210 for the last couple of months. Very similar issues. It was a high hour tractor used for a snowblower machine  up north. At first I wasn't going to touch the BGB but found the variable sheaves were worn out. Decided to swap-in another lower-hour BGB and put new seals in the box while it was out. Found that the input gear had wiggled on the shaft and ate up both the inside of the gear and the input shaft, despite the teeth on the gears being like-new. Ended up using a new shaft, all new bearings and seals. I used medium loctite on the input gear screw as per the Large Frame Repair manual. Also overhauled the steering. A new eccentric pin (had one in-stock) as well as a new bushing, new needle bearings and added a 45 degree grease zirk as I had seen another member do in the past.  With the new pin, I actually had to ream out the bushing as the pin could not fit through it. DSCN9263.thumb.JPG.d87e78de2c00d37041d2060365f5b106.JPG

 

 

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Tom45

The original steering gear bearings are plain caged needle rollers.  Instead, bearing JT 1213 can be used which has a seal on one side.  If the seal is installed to the outer side it will help to keep grease in and water out. 

Tom 

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MrSteele

The setscrew on the eccentric is, so far, not removable, but, still soaking and tapping. apparently, either Simplicity or the PO had never heard of Anti-Seize. I packed the needle bearings with lithium grease, as I did about 20 years ago, since they were still grease filled, sort of. I had already made the change to new needle bearings, but also made a change to longer than factory bearings to give me more bearing surface, assuming that would give me easier steering.
That grease fitting looks like a decent upgrade, though. I am still considering thrust bearings at the spindles, but have not found one that will fit without machining the tubes to get enough clearance for the assembly. With current cost, machining will have to wait

The BGB is ready for new parts with a fresh coat of Glyptol inside, to aid in the grease travel in the housing.

While the tractor was down, waiting for parts, I decided to check the oil burning engine, though I have a freshly rebuilt 23D ready to go back. Seems I am still in wear spec for a set of standard rings that are on the way, too. So now, my grandson's 1964 has an engine all ready for installation. Have to do a little carb and wiring work, painting, etc over the next year for that to be a new old tractor for him to ride in parades

5bdc65d63d2a3_BevelGearboxinside.thumb.jpg.e1b5f1271dc71111e7cdc88732acd71a.jpg

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MrSteele

Well, after much tapping and soaking, I got the setscrew out, pushed in a new bushing, which I had to ream to make the eccentric pin fit. The parts came in from Sandy Lake, and I was off and running, I thought. The new entry end needle bearing did not  have a full complement of needles, which I would not use. Motion will have a full compliment bearing for me later today. After considering what I was paying for a new gear, bearings and seals, a new input shaft was in order. A trip to my favorite machine shop resulted in some discussion on the housing, and a new shaft was ordered, as well as installing a hard steel bushing in the front of the housing for the new needle. Pics to follow when I pick the parts up. I am hoping that this build will last until I can no longer use the machine, and can pass it on to my grandson.

Can anyone tell me if the tie rod ends were packed with any kind of bushing, or are they steel ball on steel nuts? One of the ends has a rubber sleeve covering most of the hole, with no visible method for lubrication without tearing the ends apart, repacking, then reassembling

The 1964 Landlord is quietly amassing parts so that I will have them ready when that build comes closer. The engine, less carburetor, is sitting on the floor by the bench, the steering gear is currently stuck in a not quite straight forward position, but has been soaking for several months. I will go ahead and check the BGB, at the least put new bearings and seals into it. Nothing in the BGB or transmission seems to be stuck, as the rear wheels rolled when I was loading it. The oil does not appear to have water, or at least not much in both parts

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MrSteele

Another update.

Still waiting for the machine shop, so I had time to play with the front end. I found that I have just under a half inch of space to build up, or shim or? I have bought some case hardened steel washers to add on the spindle. If I had my own lathe, I would make more accurate shims out of bronze, might even make a set of nylon flanged bushings. However, with the steel washer and the bronze flanged bushing, I still have .042 end play above the axle assembly to the bottom of the circlip on the right side, and .039 between the axle and the steering arm bracket on the left side. The washers shown in the catalog were non-existent when I tore it down. A previous owner apparently thought they were unnecessary, or they have worn away over time. Likely left out, as I do not think the top washer would have worn out with no real weight on it. I could build up with weld and grind, but I think the washer will be easier. I have no idea what the length from top to bottom of the axle was supposed to be. Mine is worn on the bottom, just do not know how much. The wheels have worn into the side of the spindles as show in the pic, also. That will be cured with the hard washers as well, I think, have to make certain that I will have enough space left to tighten the setscrew on the end of the spindle for the bearing adjustment. The flanged bushing shown is from Motion Industries. It is the same OD as the new Simplicity bushing, but had to ream the inside .002 to make it fit the spindle. I used a diamond engraver to cut the grease channels in the bushings. I am hoping that the flanged bushing will give me more bearing surface on the front end to make steering easier.

My original tie rod ends are toast. They are still available from Simplicity for $39.99. I picked up a late model tie rod end at my parts dealer for just over $6. It is not adjustable as is the original. Wondering if anybody has used them. https://www.amazon.com/Rotary-723-0156-923-0156-923-3018-723-3018/dp/B00CNUH72Y/ref=sr_1_32?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1543823864&sr=1-32&refinements=p_n_condition-type%3A6358196011 is similar.

And, another question. Does the stack of Belleville washers on my control look like it is supposed to? I am thinking one or more should be oriented the other way, instead of all being stacked in the same orientation on the bolt. Think I am going to try changing and see what happens. Also, the plastic control 'panel' is engraved for SPEED, HI, LO and CHOKE, OFF and ON. It is readable if one looks hard. Was it originally a different color at the bottom of the score marks? This is a before pic, will try white highlights. If it works, will show an after

EDIT: While still reading, I found the Poor Man's Power Steering article. Thrust bearings and washers are on the way, and am filling the voids with Liquid Steel, setting as this is written. Still unsure of what to do at the wheel hub wear, most likely, tack the hard washers on to move the hub farther away from the spindle assembly by 1/8" on each side

5c04ddacda46a_SpindleWear.thumb.jpg.51c5ab57466be118133815b227452dd0.jpg5c04dda142a79_Frontendshim.thumb.jpg.c0a4d48e1cf142fff520014f56204ca9.jpg5c04dda80e6a6_LowerBushing.thumb.jpg.c980f59772926e6599cb2c6a4b1b5c5f.jpgControl.thumb.jpg.ffe0c02bfe09799ec3da7d5514aebe37.jpg

Edited by MrSteele
Saw another article concerning thrust bearings
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Chris727

Its coming along nicely. I'll have to get a look at a control assembly and snap some pics. When I did the Poor Man's on my B-210, I had to use a somewhat thinner washer on the top than what is described in the article, as I could not fit the e-clip in place. When I did my 916 last year, I had not read the article, and simply put thrust bearings in place with no sealing component or even any washers on top of the thrust bearing. Looks like I'll be fixing it again later, but the bearings were cheap anyway. 

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PhanDad
On 12/3/2018 at 3:32 AM, MrSteele said:

Still unsure of what to do at the wheel hub wear, most likely, tack the hard washers on to move the hub farther away from the spindle assembly by 1/8" on each side

The older tractors used a stack of washers to keep the wheel hub away from the spindle.  I'm thinking they got chewed up with time and failed.  The later tractors replaced the stack of washers with a thin spacer, about 1/4" thick, part #12 in the following IPL:

image.thumb.png.005df682a828413f84b7bf4a84a5e10e.png

Note the spacer is also used on the outside as well (between the bearing and collar).

I know I have a few of them somewhere.  If you want a couple, PM your address and I'll put them in the mail.

 

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MrSteele
On 12/3/2018 at 11:28 PM, Chris727 said:

. When I did my 916 last year, I had not read the article, and simply put thrust bearings in place with no sealing component or even any washers on top of the thrust bearing.

Folks seem to be using brake wheel cylinder cups with holes for the spindle to pass through. I might have a few of those extra  laying around if I can find them, If I do, you are welcome to them

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Chris727
1 hour ago, MrSteele said:

Folks seem to be using brake wheel cylinder cups with holes for the spindle to pass through. I might have a few of those extra  laying around if I can find them, If I do, you are welcome to them

Thank you for the offer. I went the route of using the bicycle inner tube section as a seal on the B-210. Seems to work fairly well. I still have some tube to use up so I'll likely just use that. At this point, the 916 isn't even in running condition. 

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MrSteele

A couple pics for how it is progressing. I used a 1 1/2" wheel cup, cut the hole with a sharpened 1/2" PVC fitting. The tool was made by cutting the inside of the fitting, only, to sharpen to a blade, driven through the cups. The seal fits over the axle tube, and a 1/2" PVC union was a few thousandths too small, just enough for a interference fit to keep the rubber in place. The factory weld at the tube has to be ground for the cup to have a surface to hang on to, if your front end is as worn as mine was. You can see the relieved area between the seal and axle where I filed the weld away. I have also attached a Dirt Poor mans power steering pic. The bushing, being bronze, will give an improvement over factory for those who do not have enough room for a thrust bearing. Simply fill the groove in the spindle, use the thinnest thrust race washer possible, then replace the factory lower bushing with a flanged bushing. Grease tracks will need to be cut into the bushing. (See pic above) The factory bushings are dimpled to allow grease to move through, from top to bottom

5c0ed4f6db579_Thrustbrgseal.thumb.jpg.4dbf11a8410d924a69bb3441f6d9693d.jpg5c0ed504560d2_Filledspace.thumb.jpg.9305a70e246be69a166a78338ad385e2.jpg5c0ed4f24724b_Dirtpoormanspowersteering.thumb.jpg.d20af9d0ca5e8768d12df5e4e7c915c0.jpg

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