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kwt

Thread resurection. Sunstrand hydro & power steering.

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kwt

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/25675-sundstrand-hydrolift-valving/?tab=comments#comment-326353

 The new to me hydrolift Sovereign has power steering. I understand that others have noticed a vague feeling to the steering on these tractors. I'm thinking about alleviating this by cranking up the pressure. Supposedly you can only go to 800 psi, but I found this that says that system pressure can go as high as 2500 psi. Is this BS? How can I go higher?

 

Sundstrand 15?

 

 

www.wfmfiles.com/download/Sauer_Danfoss_(Sunstrand)_Technical_Information_Series_70_15_Pumps_Motors_Transmissions(BLN-10006_RevB_Jan93).pdf

 

 

tractor.jpg

Edited by kwt

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ShaunE

I believe @BLT has shimmed those units before for better steering control.  He would be able to explain what would be the targeted pressure for responsiveness vs resistance.  There is a happy medium from what I understand.

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BLT
1 hour ago, ShaunE said:

I believe @BLT has shimmed those units before for better steering control.  He would be able to explain what would be the targeted pressure for responsiveness vs resistance.  There is a happy medium from what I understand.

I think that event tho the Sunstrand 15 unit is capable of higher pressure,  there is neither WB or metal lines the 2500 PSI or the lift or steering ram could take it. and it takes more HP.

https://simpletractors.com/articles.html/articles/transmission-rear-ends/sunstrand-pressure-checking-r16/

 

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kwt

I've hardly operated this tractor. Bought it a couple months ago and have been fixing things and chasing and waiting on parts. What I notice now is that as it sits with engine off, I can spin the steering wheel with little to no tire movement. I noticed when the engine was running that the wheel isn't really intimate with the rest of the steering.

 

I believe that this was an infamous Triad model that was repowered  with a 20hp Honda. It's about 610 cc's. 1693408

 

Tough to get pics unless I pick the front off the ground. Hmm.

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kwt
On 11/4/2018 at 7:13 AM, ShaunE said:

This is normal.  The steering shaft is an orbital valve.  

Would increasing the pressure to the valve decrease slippage while the engine is running? When the engine runs, I can turn the wheel faster than the steering cylinder can react. I can do this pretty easily.

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ShaunE

I have never done this but have the shim kit.  

From how I understand it & I will do my best to describe it but I may have it backwards....

If you have significant resistance in the wheel or "bucking" while turning in extreme direction under speed, you need to add shims that will increase pressure to take that away.  The trade off is that you will lose some of the responsiveness & gain the "lag" which to me is what you are describing.  So to me, you may need to remove shims to give you more responsiveness & decrease pressure.  There is a happy medium to shoot for in the pressure but I don't know what that is other than trial & error.  Many have units that operate flawlessly but others have the aforementioned issues.

By no means is this gospel, it's just my interpretation of past posts & phone conversations.  I spoke with @Burntime about this a year or so ago & he told me that @BLT had shimmed his to where it needed to be for optimum performance.  I believe @PhanDad has done this as well but I may be mistaken.

Edited by ShaunE

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ShaunE

Could be.  

I had a 2000 P.S. Triad Sovereign that was very slow as well & it seemed to wander a bit while mowing.  The 93/94 Sovereign I have received the components from a Sunstar.  This one seems to "buck" some resistance when trying to steer too far too fast but it is much faster than the 2000 I had.

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Brettw

I have had three power steering Sovereigns.  I had always wanted one and once I had them I did not like them.  All of them wandered.  All of them were very slow to respond to quick input.  I sold all of them.  BLT Bob and I tried shimming, different pressures, etc., and nothing changed.  I will likely get another some day, they are nice tractors, but not for cutting grass.  It will be used as the secondary work tractor and would be the way to go with a loader or as a general utility tractor, but for cutting grass they are simply a chore to use.  Too much constant steering corrections, and not nearly quick enough like manual steering when cutting around trees, etc. (crank way to the left and then back to the right)  That has been my experience.  Results may vary.

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ShaunE
12 hours ago, Brettw said:

I have had three power steering Sovereigns.  I had always wanted one and once I had them I did not like them.  All of them wandered.  All of them were very slow to respond to quick input.  I sold all of them.  BLT Bob and I tried shimming, different pressures, etc., and nothing changed.  I will likely get another some day, they are nice tractors, but not for cutting grass.  It will be used as the secondary work tractor and would be the way to go with a loader or as a general utility tractor, but for cutting grass they are simply a chore to use.  Too much constant steering corrections, and not nearly quick enough like manual steering when cutting around trees, etc. (crank way to the left and then back to the right)  That has been my experience.  Results may vary.

 

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/24786-steering-box-rehabilitation/?tab=comments#comment-319661

 

Still the best steering upgrade to be done hands down.  I've done this to two machines.  Effortless, responsive, one handed steering @ break neck speed!

And if you end up using a rear attachment like a Revitalizer or my favorite , the 38" H.D. Tiller (Right Brett?), you may need to add front weights as you will be steering with one finger.

 

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kwt

I may have to get used to this. As I said, I barely have any time on the tractor. I'm not sure I will ever mow with it. I like my 75 Homelite (7016) with the 1969 deep 48" deck very much for mowing. The nice fat tires on 9" rims work great. It looks terrible, but is ridiculously tight and dependable. Form follows function and all that. My immediate plans are to set this newer Sovereign up with a snow thrower.

 

Blt mentioned tippiness. I'll tell you straight up that the little time on it got my attention right away. It's running 8.50 ags, and the seat sits pretty high with the fore and aft sliding mechanism and starter lockout.

 

While turning the wheel, engine running, sitting still the other day, I noticed the front axle moving fore and aft @ the pivot point. I could see the movement @ the washer in the center front. I think I'll try to tighten this up before I go digging into the Sundstrand. More seat time wouldn't hurt either. Thank you gentlemen very much for the insights in to this system. I appreciate it.

 

 

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