Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

lemming

What could go wrong?

Recommended Posts

lemming

Hi all! I've been lurking for a while and finally decided to join in! 

Background - This Simplicity 7010 has been in my family since my father was a boy. My grandfather actually worked at the Allis Chalmers plant in Milwaukee.

Anyways the tractor has always been a workhorse and would be used to cut grass, plow, and till the garden. Then 3 years ago it got stuck in reverse. After many attempts at the "bent screwdriver" trick my dad let me take over. I decided to give up on quick fixes and take the transmission off. Oh! My dad told me he had changed the transmission gear oil, but when I drained it I had some serious doubts it had been changes in the last 10+ years! 

Here's where she's at now! My plan is to bring the whole rear back to a friends shop so we can tear it apart.

Thanks for letting me post and I hope to have some positive pictures to post soon since it's starting to snow and we need a plow! 

 

IMG_20181026_175928.jpg

IMG_20181026_175923.jpg

IMG_20181026_175911.jpg

IMG_20181101_202656.thumb.jpg.3c5a1e87680c35227c09a39735aed3b2.jpg

IMG_20181101_210602.jpg

Edited by lemming
Arranging Images
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
deebig

Before tearing it apart I would try the "screwdriver trick" again but using a long 3/16" allen wrench. You can feel the forks better and the 90 degree bend hooks onto the forks better. If  it is hung in reverse you need to try to push or pull the 1st/3rd (front) fork into neutral (center) position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rockfangd

Nice looking tractor, and good pics.

Welcome To Simple Tractors.

You might not like what you see if you take it apart. I assume it is a 4 or 5 speed manual. 

One of mine is hard to get into reverse. I wanted to remove the rear end but I cannot get the right wheel off the axle. 

I dont know what the screwdriver trick is but I would agree with Deebig regarding a long allen key.

Best of luck. Looks like a tank

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
720nut

welcome, you've got it this far I'd surely open it up and see what the problem is.

like they say fix it right the first time, even if you do get it out of gear , I see it happening again down the road.

Just my $.02

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhanDad

Welcome aboard.

If you're looking to get the tractor back in business quickly, you should consider buying a "parts tractor" on the cheap and swap the rear ends.  I've seen many tractors that are "rust buckets" but still have good mechanical's.  From the pics, your tractor has been well taken care of over the years. 

And you buy a parts tractor, you'll have other spare parts that may come in handy down the road.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rockfangd
5 hours ago, 720nut said:

welcome, you've got it this far I'd surely open it up and see what the problem is.

like they say fix it right the first time, even if you do get it out of gear , I see it happening again down the road.

Just my $.02

Exactly right.

Something caused it to do that. So likely it will happen again. It is never a good time when it does

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
deebig
5 hours ago, rockfangd said:

Exactly right.

Something caused it to do that. So likely it will happen again. It is never a good time when it does

Nothing has to be wrong to cause this. Shifting while tractor is moving is what causes shifter to hang. I unstuck  mine over 50 hours ago and it has been fine since. I shift alot when using a box blade.

 

Edited by deebig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AC710

Nice 7010. I have a 7016 that has tranny problems that I plan to tear into this winter. I would like to see your ongoing project to see what you encounter. Keep us posted.

My 7016 has some electrical mods that your pics tell me are not stock options with the Briggs engine - like an external mounted regulator and a separate battery cut-out master switch. But that's another project...

 

engine 7016.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AC710

Hey, I was looking at your (very good) pics, and noticed an extra spring mounted under the snowplow control arms. Is that an aid to lifting the plow? I just mounted an identical plow on my identical  (except the brand) 710 AC tractor. It had been Jerry-rigged on the 7016 and tore up the lifting arm and detent because they did not have the shock absorber spring on the lift arm. I installed an electric lift on the 710 - very nice for blade, tiller, back-blade, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TimJr

They are right above by saying that the getting hung in gear problem is often caused by rapid shifting.  The shift stem gets out of one of the shift forks and things go wrong from there.  The screwdriver trick puts thing back in place.  Used to do it all the time as a kid on the old 707 Broadmoor - same situation.

Anyway - what you need to look for is wear on the shift stem 172779 and wear in the groove of the shift forks where the shift stem rides.  Also, I have found that tightening up the gap on the roll pins at the neutral gate help minimize the problem.  

I don't have any more pics of a trans apart, but a roll pin for the neutral gate is circled in my pic.  Then ends could be worn, or it just may be set up too loose.  The idea here is to keep the ball on the end of the shift stem from sneaking out of place.

Mar.'00 Peerless oiling mods  1345 - 2.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rockfangd
2 hours ago, TimJr said:

They are right above by saying that the getting hung in gear problem is often caused by rapid shifting.  The shift stem gets out of one of the shift forks and things go wrong from there.  The screwdriver trick puts thing back in place.  Used to do it all the time as a kid on the old 707 Broadmoor - same situation.

Anyway - what you need to look for is wear on the shift stem 172779 and wear in the groove of the shift forks where the shift stem rides.  Also, I have found that tightening up the gap on the roll pins at the neutral gate help minimize the problem.  

I don't have any more pics of a trans apart, but a roll pin for the neutral gate is circled in my pic.  Then ends could be worn, or it just may be set up too loose.  The idea here is to keep the ball on the end of the shift stem from sneaking out of place.

Mar.'00 Peerless oiling mods  1345 - 2.jpg

Excellent post. The gap would likely cause the issue. These tractors have many years of use and luckily have some wear and tear are very presentable unlike todays newer equipment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lemming
3 hours ago, AC710 said:

Nice 7010. I have a 7016 that has tranny problems that I plan to tear into this winter. I would like to see your ongoing project to see what you encounter. Keep us posted.

My 7016 has some electrical mods that your pics tell me are not stock options with the Briggs engine - like an external mounted regulator and a separate battery cut-out master switch. But that's another project...

 

engine 7016.jpg

Looks like you've got some modifications! Let me know if you'd like different angles or other pictures. The only things done to the electrical was to add a splice for a trickle charger. 

3 hours ago, AC710 said:

Hey, I was looking at your (very good) pics, and noticed an extra spring mounted under the snowplow control arms. Is that an aid to lifting the plow? I just mounted an identical plow on my identical  (except the brand) 710 AC tractor. It had been Jerry-rigged on the 7016 and tore up the lifting arm and detent because they did not have the shock absorber spring on the lift arm. I installed an electric lift on the 710 - very nice for blade, tiller, back-blade, etc.

I believe that the spring is a lift aid. Want me to take more pictures? 

3 hours ago, TimJr said:

They are right above by saying that the getting hung in gear problem is often caused by rapid shifting.  The shift stem gets out of one of the shift forks and things go wrong from there.  The screwdriver trick puts thing back in place.  Used to do it all the time as a kid on the old 707 Broadmoor - same situation.

Anyway - what you need to look for is wear on the shift stem 172779 and wear in the groove of the shift forks where the shift stem rides.  Also, I have found that tightening up the gap on the roll pins at the neutral gate help minimize the problem.  

I don't have any more pics of a trans apart, but a roll pin for the neutral gate is circled in my pic.  Then ends could be worn, or it just may be set up too loose.  The idea here is to keep the ball on the end of the shift stem from sneaking out of place.

Mar.'00 Peerless oiling mods  1345 - 2.jpg

Thanks for the picture. I think I'm going to give another shot at trying to get it out of gear before I tear it apart. 

On 11/16/2018 at 7:04 PM, deebig said:

Before tearing it apart I would try the "screwdriver trick" again but using a long 3/16" allen wrench. You can feel the forks better and the 90 degree bend hooks onto the forks better. If  it is hung in reverse you need to try to push or pull the 1st/3rd (front) fork into neutral (center) position.

Sounds like I might not have a full understanding of what might be stuck. 

Here's what I was thinking: 

So the tractor is currently stuck in reverse, but I could freely move the shift selector into any of the other gears. 1st/3rd actually are able to be shifted into and the tractor "stalls out" because both reverse and 1/3 are being engaged. However 2nd cannot engage due to the rear being stuck in reverse. I  thought I could see the pints and what I thought were the forks moving. Based on that I figured the forks were working, but something might have broke to cause it to be stuck in reverse. 

That's when I tore the rear off. Maybe I should have posted here sooner! 

10 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Welcome aboard.

If you're looking to get the tractor back in business quickly, you should consider buying a "parts tractor" on the cheap and swap the rear ends.  I've seen many tractors that are "rust buckets" but still have good mechanical's.  From the pics, your tractor has been well taken care of over the years. 

And you buy a parts tractor, you'll have other spare parts that may come in handy down the road.

 

I wish I had a place to put the parts tractor! There are lots of junk yards around where I live so I was thinking about picking up a rear end to salvage parts off if I need them. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
deebig
10 hours ago, lemming said:

 

Here's what I was thinking: 

So the tractor is currently stuck in reverse, but I could freely move the shift selector into any of the other gears. 1st/3rd actually are able to be shifted into and the tractor "stalls out" because both reverse and 1/3 are being engaged. However 2nd cannot engage due to the rear being stuck in reverse.

  

 

Mine had the exact same symptom when I bought it. The allen wrench trick got it unstuck. I cannot remember whether I pushed of pulled but when it moves you will feel it. Use a visegrip on allen wrench for hand traction because it takes some force to move it. Good luck!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AC710

regarding more pics,  the ones you attached are great. I would be interested in your tear-down pics and findings in the transmission. For the electrical and plow spring - your pics show what I needed to know. Thanks. Those plows are heavy! Lots of armstrong power to continually lift them.

My transmission will not stay in reverse. It seems to shift into gear, but pops right out when the clutch is released.  The best I can do is grind the gears when I apply pressure to the shift lever to hold it in gear (sort of). The input shaft has lots of end play - that can't be right. The 7016 tractor  is quite different to drive than my 710,  It seems to be in a much lower gear, whatever gear it is in. A strange problem to investigate. It has also been de-converted from a six-speed to a 3-speed, mostly by neglect

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
deebig
24 minutes ago, AC710 said:

 

My transmission will not stay in reverse. It seems to shift into gear, but pops right out when the clutch is released.  The best I can do is grind the gears when I apply pressure to the shift lever to hold it in gear (sort of). The input shaft has lots of end play - that can't be right. The 7016 tractor  is quite different to drive than my 710,  It seems to be in a much lower gear, whatever gear it is in. A strange problem to investigate. It has also been de-converted from a six-speed to a 3-speed, mostly by neglect

No simple fix...... in your case you need an overhaul!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AC710
5 hours ago, deebig said:

No simple fix...... in your case you need an overhaul!

I agree. I think someone may have done some work on the transmission, but did not do a complete job or put it back together wrong. It was  put back together with a liquid gasket, and there are clues it was used as a "puller" at some time. Any way I have a winter project, and may have a parts tractor or be looking for one. It is interesting to guess what has happened over the life of these tractors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wwbragg
30 minutes ago, AC710 said:

It is interesting to guess what has happened over the life of these tractors

Yeah, I have learned to really hate previous owners.  But, then, I guess if it weren't for them, we wouldn't have anything to do.  And of course everything I do is absolutely to spec, right?

Edited by wwbragg
after thought
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AC710
1 hour ago, wwbragg said:

Yeah, I have learned to really hate previous owners.  But, then, I guess if it weren't for them, we wouldn't have anything to do.  And of course everything I do is absolutely to spec, right?

Sure, we do everything to spec... I always think of an experienced mechanic who came out to work on a road grader that had loose, worn-out splines on a steering gear box. He WELDED the pitman arm on tight! Aargh, I thought, until he explained: The gear is still good and it will last as long as it lasts. Then replace it if need be at the high cost of a new one. Last I knew the fix was still in service. A good lesson I've never forgotten. But...that's a big difference from many of the P.O."baling wire" fixes we encounter.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wwbragg

The sheer-pin holes in the axels and axel hubs on my 707 were wobbled out something terrible.  I bought new hubs but while waiting for inspiration on how to fix the axels,  I ordered a used tranny from e-bay.  The hubs were welded on.  DOH!  But I'm still using it. Here is a pic of it with an 11HP Briggs.

2013-11-09 18.25.35.jpg

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lemming
On 11/18/2018 at 7:50 AM, deebig said:

Mine had the exact same symptom when I bought it. The allen wrench trick got it unstuck. I cannot remember whether I pushed of pulled but when it moves you will feel it. Use a visegrip on allen wrench for hand traction because it takes some force to move it. Good luck!

So what you're saying is I probably just made a whole bunch of work for myself by taking the rear off?! Ha! I will give it a shot with a longer allen wrench. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • airgunner
    • SmilinSam
    • JohnMBerst
    • Paul M.Murphy
    • Luke Rothvoss
    • Bill725
    • PhanDad
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Mustangsvo
      Mustangsvo
      (37 years old)
    2. RenegadeJ
      RenegadeJ
      (82 years old)
    3. srwven
      srwven
      (50 years old)
  • Recent Status Updates

    • Paul M.Murphy

      Paul M.Murphy

      Hello glad I got on this site. I hope to upload a couple of photos of my Simplicity Broadmoor 
      Model 707 Tractor. I have replaced all the belts on it and installed a new ignition switch.
      Have a mower deck which was in poor shape , repaced a couple of bushings and welded the
      deck where there was some holes. The tractor and mower deck came from a friend and the 
      mower deck metal was getting pretty thin. Some new metal was put in it and we also undercoated the underside of the deck. This was done by my friend Greg Toulman.
      I have not put the mower deck on the tractor yet, waiting for Greg to come home and give me a hand. Can you please tell me if there is a manual for the mower deck and where I could get one.
      I would also like to get some moon wheel discs as well.
      I will try and down load some photos of the tractor when my wife shows me how to. 
      I really love driving this tractor and also how well it is made compare today's tractors, especially the flexible rear end and the rollers.
      Tell the next time 
      Paul
       
      · 9 replies
    • jbrooks

      jbrooks  »  Talntedmrgreen

      Josh
       
      folowing  this from a link at the downloads.  I just rescued an AC 920 with the lambodini diesel. I can' t download  yet .  Where did you find the PDF copy you posted. . I would like to figure out how to adjust the injection pump. 
      I assume it's a bosche, correct
      · 0 replies
  • Adverts

×