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hotwire

JC Peney 7013 carb no start issue

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hotwire

Hey folks, had some snow here in NC over the weekend. I spent a few days getting the 7013 back up and running ( hadnt used it in 4 years or so)..... i put a new head and gasket on, cleaned and checked all wiring, new battery, changed the oil and cleaned the carb. I set the jets to initial settings and it hit and ran after a few tries. Called it good for the night. Went out the next day and it fired up. Got it warmed up, adjusted the jets to good full throttle response and good idle, then set the idle to a good sounding RPM. I got the plow mounted and rigged up a stinger weight off the rear. It started well all day, drove good, seemed ready...... waited for the snow. Went out sunday, excited to get some seat time. That thing wouldnt start for anything. I reset the initial jet settings, no start. So a couple things....... i noticed fuel leaking between the carb and intake. I took the carb off and made new gaskets (from sheet gasket material) for between the carb and intake and also for between the carb top and bottom. Still no start and fuel still leaking. It would fire (poorly) if i physically held the throttle valve closed tightly...... i could never get it to run again..... its obviously fuel related, but what? If i held the throttle closed and it would hit, is that saying it was getting waaaay too much fuel? Why would it leak fuel from between the carb / intake. I think it was coming out from the throttle shaft too......... everything inside the carb looked good..... if for some reason the float was stuck open, would it flood the intake? Long post, but if you made it this far (ha) what are your thoughts...... by the way, i was so disappointed, i put the plow on the ‘66 landlord 101, but it wouldnt push the snow and the lift lever is either up or down, no notches to keep the plow elevated off the gravel. I put them both away and used the JD2320 with a bucket. Wasnt nearly as fun or as good.....

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PhanDad

I'm pretty sure you have a Briggs single cylinder engine.  They are notorious for leaking fuel past the float valve.  Most of us with Briggs single cylinder engines have put in a fuel shutoff valve in the fuel line to the carb and use it always.  (Even rebuilt they like to leak)

Since you mention snow, I assume it's cold.  With the long up-flow path from the carb to the intake port, I've found the single cylinder Briggs hard to start in the winter.  I usually put a heat lamp on the carb/intake and let it warm up some - that usually works for me.  

Another possible issue is the speed the engine's turning over on cold days.  You need as much speed as you can get so depress the clutch to minimize the amount of "stuff" that the starter (or more likely the S/G) has to rotate. 

 

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hotwire

I actually thought about the cold and a heat lamp, but it was no dofferent the day before, andbit was  running like a champ. Yes, its a single cylinder cast iron engine, with a fuel shut off in line..... it would only leak while i was attempting to start it. I just dont know what it was trying to me if it would only attempt to fire if i held the throttle valve (rod with the idle screw and spring) all the way shut..... these arent complicated engines, but i cant figure this out..... ha..... whats that say about me? Hahaha.....

Anybody else have any other thoughts?

thanks folks...

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hotwire

That makes sense to me. I’ll take it back apart and check the float. The valve looked ok, but..... how much would the main jet generally be turned out? Its best response was almost all the way closed..... maybe 1/4 - 1/2 turn out...... again, telling me  too much fuel is in the system......

i did not replace the top intake gasket, but “should” be good. They were all new 4 years ago, not much run time and untouched since..... i think i’ll just get a rebuild kit and gaskets and redo it all...... now that the snow is almost gone.... 

any other thoughts?

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gwiseman

The other thing that comes to my mind is possible sediment or condensation. After a tractor has set for a period of time things can get shaken during operation enough to flake off and travel through the fuel line into the carb. I've had fuel lines flake if the tractor hasn't been used in a year or so.  It doesn't take much of a flake or condensation to mess with the jet and cause you a fuel problem.   

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Brettw

If you can, shut the fuel off to the carb, somehow.  Drain the tank, in line shut off, vice grips on the fuel line, etc.  Stop the leaking.   Make sure the throat and intake is free of standing fuel and relatively dry.  Now, that should eliminate the excess fuel, stuck float, etc.  as a potential issue.  If the carb jets are proper and all of that is as it should be, and you have checked the plug to make sure it isn't fouled and it's dry, it should run as normal until the float bowl runs dry.  Even with the leaking fuel, the Briggs is an updraft, so you have not flooded the cylinder as you might in other setups (Kohler KT's or Magnums for instance).  I would be a bit surprised if the extra fuel is an issue, as usually it leaks out the bottom of the housing.  If that is not the case and you truly have filled up the intake tube, then I could see an issue.  But when I check these engines to see if they will even pop after sitting for ages and looking like a wreck, I remove the air filter, add raw fuel to the intake, and spin it over.  It will usually run for a second or so. (If it has spark and compression and it hasn't sheared a flywheel key)  And I have had these engines where I forgot to turn off the fuel and they are dripping fuel, and they still start up and run fine.  This is why I think the extra fuel may not be your issue.  So try the above and see if that eliminates that potential problem.  Good luck!  

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hotwire

Thanks! I was having dinner with my wife tonight and thought of the same thing....... shut the fuel off, drain the carb, with the air filter off, add a small amount of fuel add see if it pops...... these are all great suggestions and am grateful for the replies. I’ll mess with it friday and see what happens.... if there are more suggestions, throw em at me.

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Brettw
8 hours ago, hotwire said:

shut the fuel off, drain the carb,

Well, I would not drain the carb.  Just shut the fuel off so the excess fuel problem is no longer there.  Start there to see if the jets and the carb other than the float are working correctly.  No need to drain the carb and put some fuel in the throat, as you already seem to have that.  I just do that to see if an engine will even run at all when trying to quickly evaluate it.  I would want to see if the problem is the excess fuel or the carb.  If you don't have the excess fuel and still have a fuel related problem it would be the carb, bad jets, etc.  If it runs well then it's the excess fuel.  Keep in mind, it may not be a fuel issue. A sheared flywheel key, for instance., will keep you chasing problems until you have pulled every last hair out of your head.

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RAC

Grab the throttle shaft and give it a wiggle. Is it loose/sloppy in its bore (for the shaft)? Those Briggs carbs are really sensitive to having a good vacuum signal to start. I've seen them suck just enough air around the shaft that they simply will not start. If it is loose, try cranking it while physically holding the throttle at idle and maybe push it in against the carb body so it can't pull air around the shaft and see if it will fire (put a fresh plug in first :-)).

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RAC

As for running the day before.... You said it'd been sitting. maybe some varnish or gunk build-up that had it sealed up a little. It does have good spark, right???

Edited by RAC

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hotwire

Ok. I will try all those ideas! It has good spark and a new plug with a couple new extra plugs.There is slop in the throttle valve rod, and thought it may be an issue. I have taken that carb apart and back together at least 6 times in the last week (once before the no start issue and the rest after, each time checking and cleaning the jets, float and float valve and passages, finishing with compressed air. I have ordered a new carb and gaskets from isavetractors. Its a repo carb, but looks to be good quality (i hope) Anybody have expierence with that companys products? Either way, it will be here next week and i’ll give it a go. Only reason i ordered a new one was because of the slop in the throttle valve arm. One way or another, its going to run. I rebuilt this motor about 5 years ago and have only run it for a few hours since the build, and put a new flywheel key in it. I will check it this weekend to make sure its there and indexed.

one interesting fact about the rebuild.... originally it was a 13HP motor with an oversize piston (.030 i think) When the rod cap bolt let go, it busted the rod, cap, piston and scratched the cylinder. I could not find a larger oversize piston (NLA) so i did more research and saw the only difference between the 13HP and 16HP motor was piston bore. I had a local machine shop cut the block to a STD 16HP bore, got a NOS briggs STD 16 piston and oversized rod set and had them match the crank journal to the rod bore. Worked pretty slick.

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MrSteele

As a part of your fuel work, I suppose you replaced the filter and blew out the lines. If this is close to original, there is also a strainer in the tank that has a tendency to clog. I do not think you have a 'too much fuel' issue, but a not enough fuel issue. When you pull the line off at the carb, open the valve to check flow in the line.

The gasket issue is also a good likely left out situation, or not tightening bolts properly. The carb I am currently running, or will be when I get it back together, has the usual slop in the throttle shaft. That can be bushed to take up space, and I have done on Clinton and Tecumseh carbs over the years. They were bad, a lot worse than Briggs about wearing at the shaft. If you are getting too much air in the system, I would check gaskets, first, and I like a visual test instead of the spray testing with carb cleaner or penetrating oil. Takes longer but is usually completely accurate.

If the key is sheared, you will still have fire at the plug, just at the wrong time to make the engine run, so you are not sure about the key. They will shear sometimes at the least backfire when starting or shutting down.

 

 

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hotwire

Yep, replaced filter, but didnt think to blow out the lines. I replaced the line from filter to carb. I will replace the remaining old section. New carb came last night, so i will put that on Tomorrow night. Cant wait to see what happens. I planed on checking the float from the old carb for snickers, just to see. Let you all know how it does. Thanks for the replies!

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hotwire

Put the new carb on last night. It popped, but still had the leaking fuel and wouldnt start. Then i noticed ( like on the old carb) it would run if i held the throttle valve down....... then it hit me....... something was holding the throttle open..... i referenced the service manual and i had the short spring for the govenor on backwards..... doesnt seem like it should matter, maybe it was in a bind..... eitherway, i switched the spring around, the throttle closed. It fired up and half ran. I noticed the spring was bent a little at the hook end. I switched in a different spring fron a spare motor. It tightened it up and looked better. It fired up, warmed it up, adjusted the carb. Seems all is good......

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