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MikeES

Vickers Hydro repair

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MikeES

I am about to start on a project to fix the leak on my HB212.  It leaks hydro fluid into the transaxle.   This has been going on for 20+ years, started as a minor issue, then it was a nuisance and now it leaks bad enough that I need to fix it.

The manual show that the seal for the output shaft is #1650071.  I don't know if this is  still a good number, or if the seal is even still available.  Does anyone know?

And can you change the seal without disassembling the pump?  By the parts diagram it shows the seal, then a spacer, a bearing, and then a snap ring.   So will the bearing slide off the shaft when the snap ring is removed?

Thanks.

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PhanDad

@Chris727 recently rebuild a Vickers.  I don't think he mentioned what or where he got parts.  I think he'll be able to answer your questions.

Here's a link to the "completion" post that has a link to his first post:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/60461-vickers-rebuild-completed/

According to Jacks, 1650071SM is still available from Simplicity.  

The Vickers part number is 229236 (from the  Vickers Service Parts Catalog) that I got a copy of from somewhere (maybe someone on this site, don't remember).  

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Chris727

I didn't disassemble that portion of the unit. I replaced the bearing and seal on the input shaft. I bought a lot of the parts off ebay NOS and the bearing I bought through a bearing supplier. 

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MikeES

Thanks Guys, I remembered that I had a basket of Vickers parts that came with a tractor deal, and I actually found it.  The output body was still there with shaft, seal, bearing, and output gear.   Took it apart and there is no way to remove and replace the seal in place.  So I will have to at least disassemble the hydro motor end.

Unless someone can think of another way that the axle housing can fill up with red transmission oil other than the output shaft seal.

It is good to know that the seal is still available.

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PhanDad

Some more info I've archived:

The JoggerFogger Vickers repair post:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/49741-vickers-hydrostatic-t66x-in-a-3415h/

It has some good links; checkout the "GT Talk" link which starts:

"My T66x was leaking at the forward/reverse control and at the point the motor enters the reduction gear box. I found a seal kit online, PRO-ACTIVE Fluid Power, but that's another thread. Everyone loves pictures, so here goes ..." 

 

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PhanDad
18 hours ago, PhanDad said:

(from the  Vickers Service Parts Catalog) that I got a copy of from somewhere (maybe someone on this site, don't remember). 

Info was from @dave45056;  He made this tech tips post about it.

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/43375-vickers-hydrostatic-trans-part-list/

I just added to the above post with info about the other manual he acquired: 

5c34fee6e000f_VickersFactoryDisassemblyM

I just uploaded both manuals to the "Downloads" section of the site. 

 

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MikeES

What do you guys recommend for hoses to the cooler and reservoir?  They are 1/2" ID.  Anybody have any idea what temperature they need to be good for?

So  far I have only been able to find hydraulic hose, with 2 metal braided reinforcement,  I don't think you can stretch that over the "hose barb" fittings.  Plus it is $$.

 

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MikeES

The Vickers repair manual shows gaskets between the valve body and the pump body and motor body.  The 2 units that I have does NOT have a gaskets.

The unit I pulled out of my HB212 did not leak at those connections.   I am sure that this Vickers has never been apart, I bought the tractor from the original owner, and he said he never had anything (motor, transmission, etc) apart.

If I put gaskets in...this will change the spacing as the axial piston assemblies ride against the valve body.

PhanDad, or Chris727...did yours have gaskets?

BTW the pintle shafts on spare parts unit has lip seals install in the body, it came from a later tractor (1973 3415H) so maybe that was a factory improvement.  sm01  I will be using that body, even though my pintle shafts were not leaking...when I laid the unit on its side trans fluid flowed out around the rear pintle shaft.

Plus I picked up a 3rd Vickers unit, do not know if it works or not.  My plan is to bench test it before tearing it down.

 In the picture below the left is the unit from my HB212, center is parts unit from 3415H, right is the from ???

And picture of pintle seals on center unit.

IMG_1994[1].JPG

IMG_1997[1].JPG

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Chris727

This as far as I ever had mine broken down. If this is the gasket in question, I don't remember but there being a gasket of any significance, maybe scraps of a highly disintegrated one. The new gasket is very thin.DSCN7085.thumb.JPG.d36b33b3ad238ca1f110f6498926038c.JPG

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MikeES

This as far as I ever had mine broken down. If this is the gasket in question, I don't remember but there being a gasket of any significance, maybe scraps of a highly disintegrated one. The new gasket is very thin.DSCN7085.thumb.JPG.d36b33b3ad238ca1f110f6498926038c.JPG

Yes this is the gasket in question.  Mine did not have this gasket and no remnants of one.   I do not have these gaskets.  Sooooo do I put it together as it was metal to metal, or do it put a very thin layer of silicone, between the body parts?  Even being very careful, I am concerned about any silicone getting inside.  I have the hi-temp/oil application silicone gasket maker.

Also 2 of my units have an o-ring around the output flange, you can see the groove for it in the above picture.  The service manual and parts list do not show the o-ring.

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wwbragg
10 hours ago, MikeES said:

hi-temp/oil application silicone gasket maker

I'm in favor of Permatex Aviation Form-a-Gasket.  "How to Rebuild a VW Motor" specifically warns against using silicone to seal the cylinder jugs to the case and heads to the jugs because it prevents a tight seal.  When it dries it leaves a gap and will leak.  Now, maybe the new stuff is different, but I'd use the gasket with Permatex on both sides.  But once again, you could argue for just using the Permatex. I mean, like, there is no gasket between the VW cylinder jug and the case.

aaaa ptx-80019_lo_ml.jpg

Edited by wwbragg
correction

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PhanDad
12 hours ago, MikeES said:

Also 2 of my units have an o-ring around the output flange, you can see the groove for it in the above picture.  The service manual and parts list do not show the o-ring.

My old Homelite T12 parts manual and a "new" version of the HB212  parts manuals shows an o-ring:

image.thumb.png.95997f9c287f17a39e5f437327045098.png

image.thumb.png.6ae2721a984e5e139ff6368d125be491.png

It's listed as part #0166026 in both manuals.

Strange that your parts list doesn't show an o-ring.  Maybe it's because the "new" HB212 parts is a re-labeled Simplicity 3212H manual (IPL of hood shows 3212H decals).

I've also wondered why there's only one "lump" (valve?) on the Vickers in the HB112 I had vs the two on my Homelite T12 Vicker's:

Vickers_Differences_0009.jpg.dad516931b40a0a65a76e878136d0ea6.jpg

Vickers_Differences_0022.jpg.0f4140ce7aadd3fcc4daa6bd50145c3a.jpg

 

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MikeES

I just removed the pump body and there was a gasket there.  And of course it has a microscopic split...I just ordered one, still available, about $8.  The gasket for the motor body is NLA.

Also I remove the guts of the pump and found one of the pivot heads is bad, it is broke around the socket, so it does not  stay attached to its piston.   :(  I am sure it was Ok as long as everything was filled with fluid and under pressure, but I think it will fall apart before I get it up to pressure, and it will make mincemeat of the pump if it falls out of place.

So I now I am mixing guts parts,  the basket hydro has different heads on the pistons, much thicker and more wear area surface.  I am going to use them with the piston body that goes with them, but with the swash plate from the original.

Wish me luck.

PhanDad, As far as the O-ring, I was not looking at the axle schematic, just the Vickers manual.

Also in the pictures of the 3 units above the right unit does not have threads in the output shaft to hold the gear on??? 

Edited by MikeES

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MikeES
On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 8:10 PM, sammiefish1 said:

And.........

I should have posted the result...I put it all together with the mix of parts and it is working great!  No leaks and the Vickers is more positive than before, but still smooth (not like a sunstrand).  Very happy  with the results!

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