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FSACB102018

Allis Chalmers Late B10 Restoration

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FSACB102018

Hi everyone,

My son and I are getting ready to start a full restoration of a late B10 in the spring. This is the first project for the two us. 

While we are very excited, we are also new at this. I was hoping to get some suggestions from everyone on how to proceed.

The unit is complete except it is missing an engine. The motor block and some assorted engine parts came in a box. Otherwise it appears the tractor is complete.

Parts I have already acquired:

Seat cushions, seat supports, a new gas tank, and new front rims.

Any and all feedback is welcome. I will be posting some pictures when we start.

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fishnwiz

Hello Kevin

Want to be the 1st to welcome you and your son to our site. I am very happy to hear of the father/son connection in regards to your restoration. It's imparitive that young people become involved in this hobby of ours to keep it going into the future.

You will enjoy your B10. Our membership is AWESOME and overflowing with tractor knowledge so you definitely have come to the right place.

Don't be afraid to ask any and all questions your son and you may have as there are NO DUMB QUESTIONS on this site and absolutely nobody will judge you based on your questions. 

Please feel free to share any and all pics and if you haven't already joined our club, it's the best 10 dollars you can spend ESPECIALLY if your new to the hobby.

Again, welcome to you and your son. Pull up a chair and stay a while. 

 

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wwbragg

So, what's the plan?  Are you going for a full restore by rebuilding that Briggs engine?  Or is a repower in the picture?  Either way, you will fine plenty of answers herein.

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Brettw

Welcome, welcome!  What a great thing to share with your son.  We will certainly be willing to help, and learn at the same time.  When you say "restoration" that can mean many things to many people.  Some end up with tractors that exceed the brand new fit and finish when they left the factory.  Some consider a restoration as a close color of rattle can on easy to spray areas.  There are cosmetic, mechanical, custom, and meticulous original restorations.  Some will be garage queens, never to dirty their pristine look.  Others are restored to good working condition so we can work them for another few decades.  

We are looking forward to watching.  And you will find that many will put their 2 cents worth in.  From some, that 2 cents is like a bar of gold bullion.  For others of us, you couldn't even buy useful fertilizer with the 2 pennies.  It varies with all of us.  Shootin' the bull, helping each other, talking smack, and sometimes, actually being useful is what this site is all about. 

Either way, any way, glad to have you and your son on board!

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MrSteele

Welcome to the site! My second tractor is one that was going to be a father son attempt. Father realized the amount of work, and son met girls..and I got a bargain.All I wanted was the engine, but decided my grandson needs something to ride in parades, so it is coming apart.

 

As for advice on where to start? Get a handful of wrenches and start tearing it apart. I would check the BGB for wear, be certain the gears mesh as they should, and the seals actually seal. Personally, I would put the Briggs back together, but a repower works, as well. What are you going to do with the tractor when it is back together? Tractor shows and parades, or do you have a 6 acre field to cut every week? End use may make a lot of difference in what you put under the hood. We are willing to help....

 

Something you will glean from this or any rebuild, if you do it right, is that you will learn: from the members here, from what you do to the machine, or what you learn from the old guy at the flea market selling the part you need. Learn to listen to any advice, sort through it, and use as you can. Tuck the rest back for another project

 

And above all, Have FUN!

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FSACB102018

Hi guys, thank you so much for the warm welcome! We are getting ready to start the project in earnest. See below for the starting picture.

I think to start on this the plan was to try and repaint all the metal. I was not planning on taking the unit completely apart, but was going to remove all the larger pieces to ensure a good job. Can I just go over this with spray paint after I power wash, sand, prime and paint? 

If yes, after painting is done, I would tackle new tires. I will remove the small rims in the front and use the larger replacement rims I have purchased. Once painted, I will have the new rims and tires put on these and reapply to the B10. The rear tires are flat and do not hold air so I would then tackle these to complete this portion.

This gets me to the two parts I am not so confident with:

1.) Electrical. How do I go about rewiring this thing for a new engine?

2.) Seems strange that the battery and gas tank are in the same compartment. How do you set this up for safety? Has anyone used a battery box on these types of machines?

Thank you everyone for your help with this. 

 

 

IMG_0130.JPG

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wwbragg
On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 5:25 PM, FSACB102018 said:

How do I go about rewiring this thing for a new engine?

Unless I am mistaken, the B10 is the same as a Simplicity Landlord.  Newer Landlords had a vertical shaft engine but the older ones had a horizontal shaft.  If yours is a vertical, a Briggs engine should drop right in.  I put an 11HP Briggs vertical in a Simplicity 707 (originally 7 HP) and it bolted right in.  I only had to modify the drive pulley and have The Muffler Man fabricate a new exhaust. 

If yours is a horizontal engine, you  have more options but will probably require more intense modifications.  For example, may have to make a drive shaft adaptor and raise the engine higher on the frame. 

Wiring will depend on the motor you use.  The electricals on the Harbor Freight motor are self contained so you don't need to rewire it.  

So the first order of business is, what motor do you plan to use?

nFrq9ggI.jpeg.jpg

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Chris727

@FSACB102018. If you want to truly restore the tractor I would recommend completely disassembling it and having the sheet metal panels and frame media blasted to remove the old paint and rust. There are lots of facilities that specialize in custom blast jobs for small quantities of parts. A paint job is only as good as the prep work. Do you have painting experience? If not you might do some research. Using a spray gun can be beneficial but all of that takes some practice and the proper personal protective equipment. As for the battery and fuel tank issue, most people don't have trouble, It gets to be an issue if the tractor is rolled. Using a battery hold down and prevent some of that possible trouble. 

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PhanDad

Wiring is straightforward on the early tractors.  Replace wire for wire.  I use 14 gauge wire for everything except the main power cables.  It's overkill, but works for me.  

As you replace each wire, you can check against the following wiring diagrams from the B series Repair Manual to ensure it's "factory":

image.thumb.png.67e343bd6e5f3f947b8b26d7cf9f6ca1.png

image.thumb.png.a3cc6917b2e0a4116579e3868c23e494.png

image.thumb.png.30459903a8628f6f21e2b2e5d6e01f93.png

image.thumb.png.3096a84ba266411272740a280d7032f5.png

The Repair manual is available for download using this link:

https://simpletractors.com/files/file/29-b-series-repair-manual-in-8-parts/

In the same "Downloads" section of the site there are other manuals available for your tractor.

 

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plastikosmd

Looks like a nice project. (Just so you know for your parts hunt) the b10 and the B 12 (10 vs 12 hp) share most of the same parts. Similarly, cross platform=the simplicity line 2010and 2012 are nearly matching to the allis line. Sometimes paint colors are the only difference 

 

I am south of u and do have some parts if u come across something u need. 

I started with a b12 but repowered to to a 16. You may want to consider it unless u are going for restoration. (10 and 12 do just fine for power)

Edited by plastikosmd
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FSACB102018

Hi everyone,

Well, the project has finally BEGUN!

Since I wrote last, I was able to acquire an early B10 with an engine and mower deck. This B10 (and deck) are in great structural condition but sat outside for an unknown period of time. The engine seemed to crank over but the electrical was a mess and needs to be fully replaced.

PLAN: To restore the early B10 unit first. The original unit (Late B10, without an engine) will be used for parts.

TIMEFRAME: As long as it takes to do it right and have fun doing it together!

So, my son and I started and here is what we found:

1.) Looking at the unit (pictures below) we started with the seat and seat pan, thinking this would be easy enough to get off. This ends the easy portion of the day...

2.) All the bolts were frozen on, making this arduous work. After an hour and half, and a good amount of WD40, we were able to get the seat pan, side fenders, seat brackets and screws off. The seat looked salvageable originally but came apart in the process, exposing a great deal of rot. The seat was actually the worst part, as I wanted to salvage the brackets (including the rear light bracket for possible use later on). IMG 9114 shows the unit without the seat pan on.

NEXT STEPS: Grind the paint off with an angle grinder (and respirator equipment), prime, paint and seal these parts. I'll send some pictures once this happens.

We will take this a section at a time, storing the finished parts indoors. 

ONE QUESTION: On the battery/gas tank: Has anyone used a battery box to separate these? Otherwise I was planning on installing a battery rod to secure the battery.

Enjoy the photos! Any thoughts, suggestions and tips are always encouraged!

IMG_8643.jpg

IMG_8645.jpg

IMG_9110.jpg

IMG_9114.jpg

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FSACB102018

Hi everyone

Forgot to post an update from May. See the pictures below.

This was a ton of work. Looking to get all the parts we took off to the sand blaster. Then we can paint! 

Was surprised how much my son wanted to help. Great father-son time.

Any tips for removing the engine?

Thanks for looking and any feedback would be great!

 

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Chris727

Thank you for the update. This tractor has a few extras on it. It has the lower brackets for mounting the factory cab to the foot rests. It also has the optional rear work light with the original bracket and a hi-lo (2-speed pulley) on the transmission. It appears to be missing the shift lever mechanism for the Hi-Lo. That will be nearly impossible to find and difficult to manufacture. As for removing the engine, its usually a fairly simple operation once you've gotten as far as you have. There are four mounting bolts through the frame and two for the driveshaft coupler. Your tractor still has the original style driveshaft couplings. It may be worth updating them to the newer style as is found on the late B-10. The early ones had trouble with the rubber separating from the metal discs. 

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FSACB102018

Hi guys,

A brief update.

1.) The parts tractor is completely apart. Sorry, not photos. I was able to salvage several parts. Some of the will be used in the restoration. Others will be saved in the event that they are need later on.

2.) Several parts are ready to sandblast. I hope to have an update later in the week as to where we are with this. Both of us are excited!

3.) Not sure what to do with the engine. It is original from the outside but thinking of sending this to a shop to go through in the winter/spring. I do not have the tools to rebore/replace parts. Any suggestions? Expectations on costs?

You all have been fantastic with both encouragement and information. Thank you for helping us we continue on with this project~

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Chris727

Looking forward to your progress. I suspect the cost to have a shop rebuild the engine could be costly. If you could find an older or old time shop that would probably be your better bet. The pistons and rods are getting harder to find for that engine if needed especially if undersized or over sized are required. 

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MrSteele
On 8/24/2019 at 8:51 PM, FSACB102018 said:

Not sure what to do with the engine. It is original from the outside but thinking of sending this to a shop to go through in the winter/spring. I do not have the tools to rebore/replace parts.

I would remove the head, you should have the tools for that, at least. Check the cylinder bore at top, and about a quarter inch below the top by simply running your fingers across the distance. I picked up an older engine a while back that had .002 wear. No need to bore, simply put a new set of rings into the engine. And, soaked the old leather seals in oil for reuse, since new are a bit difficult to find. .002 almost feels smooth to the touch. I have micrometers for checking to find the .002. If less than .008, a new set of rings will go for several years of fairly hard use

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MrSteele
On 8/24/2019 at 10:42 PM, Chris727 said:

If you could find an older or old time shop that would probably be your better bet

I run one of those, both for personal and sort of public. It is a hobby. I cannot bore, but have a buddy that does them for me if required. Several engines have been bored, a sleeve installed, then the sleeve bored back to standard size, since pistons and hens teeth are on the same shelves!

thinking of sending this to a shop to go through...I hope you have deep pockets. A local shop was given a Kohler to "see if it is worth rebuilding" It was not, according to the shop. I have the engine in my shop, traded for it to put on a Troy Bilt. I lapped and adjusted the valves. The shop sold a new engine, then replaced the original owner's carburetor with a Tecumseh carburetor. It looked ok, since the engine was heading for scrap...

 

Edited by MrSteele
Thought of advice for a shop situation

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AC710
On 8/24/2019 at 7:51 PM, FSACB102018 said:

3.) Not sure what to do with the engine. It is original from the outside but thinking of sending this to a shop to go through in the winter/spring. I do not have the tools to rebore/replace parts. Any suggestions? Expectations on costs?

Are you sure the engine needs rebuilding? Lots of times they are just tired from sitting or neglected because of some other problem. Clean the carb, replace spark plug, check out the electrical, see if it runs before deciding on a rebuild.

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FSACB102018

Hello everyone,

Well, we have been busy.

Got the parts back from sandblasting. We started painting! See below for some photos.

We are working to finalize the cream/black parts first. Then we will move along to the yellow parts. We will have some photos once these are done.

I was able to get an excellent original gas tank which you will noticed was primed in some of the photos. Another interesting part is the toolbox (to be placed behind the seat supports). 

If time permits in the fall, we will remove the engine and start looking at this. I was able to find another oil sump which we painted black today. 

Thank you everyone for your suggestions on the engine rebuild. Once we pull this out I will provide an update.

All in all, this has been extremely rewarding. 

IMG_9477.thumb.jpg.2c3d1b9ea25790ce673fcfe9a2f37717.jpgIMG_9476.thumb.jpg.2d62f157e80a9747c80a125f616e7183.jpgIMG_9484.thumb.jpg.67a46c036e0fa1de1cb2ba285becb194.jpgIMG_9500.thumb.jpg.34fe5aac04f6de284048b4e2603ea372.jpgIMG_9478.thumb.jpg.ea379968b296536d11e56cc1b0fe810f.jpg

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