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carterd

Front PTO Spacer Dimensions Needed Please

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carterd

Good morning everyone, 

 

I bought a used pto set up for my 917H and it is missing just one part. I have the ability to make a new one, but I don't have the dimensions to make it. Can anyone help me with this? 

The part I am missing is part "H" from the diagram. 

 

 

frtpto1.jpg.3d0d64030a10eb0ee5e768ac7da1ad6f.jpg

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PhanDad

Based on this:

image.thumb.png.263c917c5a52d072e72de92f2a077c05.png

Which is from BLT's kit part list document:

https://simpletractors.com/files/file/45-parts-kits-up-to-1981-84/

The part number is probably 174509 and if so, the spacer was just recently available on eBay:

 

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SIMPLICITY-ALLIS-CHALMERS-TRACTOR-PTO-CLUTCH-SPACER-174509-NOS-PART-H-28-/332971619360?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

Doesn't say it was sold, but listing has ended.

 

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PhanDad

On re-reading your post, I noticed the tractor is a 917, so it should have the 17HP Kohler KT engine.  

So the spacer above probably isn't the correct one (plus it looks like you need other parts based on this:

image.thumb.png.98e51094d40ca99a99930eb8b59aad3a.png

So I'm confused.

 

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kwt

Now I'm confused. I thought the 900 series matched the 7100 series, and I'm pretty sure the 7100 series had no front PTO. My 1975 7000 series does (Homelite), but my buddies 1985 7116 does not.

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GregB

You are correct the Allis 900 series is the same as the Simplicity 7100 series.

The Standard set-up on that series is the front attachments get driven from the Mid mounted Cone Clutch PTO with a long belt. 

You could mount the front PTO if you already had the 700/7000 series blower or other front mounted attachment with the two pulley mount.

 

Homies can be an entirely different breed, depending on which one you are talking about.

 

 

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PhanDad
1 hour ago, kwt said:

Now I'm confused. I thought the 900 series matched the 7100 series, and I'm pretty sure the 7100 series had no front PTO. 

The AC 900 and Simplicity 7100 series did not come with a “standard” front PTO.  It came standard with the mid PTO which was designed to run front, mid, and rear attachments.  

But there were still many snow blowers around in inventory that came packaged with the “7000” series 2 pulley front hitch.  Hence the Front PTO Kit I posted above that allowed the 2 pulley hitch to be used with the KT engines and the “regular” front PTO kit; the 7112 through the 7116 single cylinder engines were the same as the 7000 engines and could use the front PTO directly but I believe it was fitted with a longer control rod.  

Another option was to install an electric front PTO on a 7100 series tractor and use the 2 pulley hitch to drive a snowblower.  I personally did this to my repowered 17GTH-L (16 HP Briggs) before I acquired a single pulley hitch setup.  

Also, I believe, the only “Simplicity” tractors to come “standard” with a front PTO were the AC 300/400 series tractors and the AC large frame Homelites of the same time frame.  They were electric, not mechanical.

 

Edited by PhanDad
Added last sentence

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kwt

System 7010.  Puts 10 hp to work with three power takeoffs operating a dozen different attachments. (From this website).

 

I've also read that my 1975 Homlite T-16 is EXACTLY the same as a 1975 System 7016 except for paint color.

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Talntedmrgreen

There were two “upfit kits” for the front PTO’s. 

1690356 converted a front PTO to fit a 1-1/8” shaft, hence the materials state “17 & 18hp”.  It also fit the later KT19.  Phandad points out something important about the KTs though...the jugs prevent the engagement rod from passing  

1690542 was the additional upfit kit for the KT’s, and was merely a different engagement rod and clutchfork to use with it.  But...the KT’s were in 7100/900’s and so the front of the frame was longer (and front axle further from the engine). So a longer belt and longer lift rod was also included in this kit.  

From what I understand, both of these are quite scarce, especially one setup for a KT.   Seems to me buying a mid pto style hitch would have been easier and cheaper back then, than buying the clutch kits to add a PTO to the tractor. 

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B10Dave

My 919H came with an electric engage pto clutch on the front of the crankshaft. It was used to run a snowblower that unfortunately I did not get in the auction I bought the 919 in. Also missed the generator but did get the tiller.

Edited by B10Dave

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carterd

So it looks like i'll get this figured out and report back! 

 

I got the snowblower for $50, and the PTO kit for $50, so I'm only into this for $100, and in my area, I cannot find a mid mount attachment for that (although it would make my life much easier if I could). I am machinist who has access to lots of fun stuff at work, and I have a lathe in my basement, so making this spacer will be nothing but time due to me sourcing some steel from the scrap bin. .

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GregB

I have one other place I can look, this evening.  If you have a two pulley mount on your blower, and everything for the PTO, all you need is the spacer.

IF I cannot find it you might be able to figure it out.

The spacer goes between the shoulder on the front shaft (on Briggs at least)  then the center spring bushing goes on.  The front washer holds the spring against the center section of the clutch part.

So a starting place would be length of shaft to shoulder minus spring bushing = spacer thickness?

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carterd

That's where I was going to start. I rough cut the spacer at 2" OAL and from what I can see, it needs to be much smaller. I have both the single and double pulley's and a bunch of other parts. The only thing I cannot find is that spacer lol.

 

 

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PhanDad
11 hours ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

Seems to me buying a mid pto style hitch would have been easier and cheaper back then, than buying the clutch kits to add a PTO to the tractor. 

I agree, but if the dealer had inventory a deal could be had.  I prefer that thought to the "had inventory and sold it to a customer that wasn't aware of the newer setup". 

 

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GregB

Found my spacer.  the combination of spacer and spring bushing left about .250 of PTO shaft out on all the Briggs singles I looked at here.

My K341 16 hp has a longer 1"diameter shaft , so not really sure how long your spacer needs to be to work.

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