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s_stephen

engine oil or molasses

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s_stephen

I went to drain oil in a kohler command 20 yesterday that i got in a parts tractor and when i opened the drain valve nothing came out. i had tested compression on the engine before and it turned over fine and had perfect compression test and dipstick showed full of oil. i then tryed to flush the engine with a little gasoline and still nothing drained. i then removed the dipstick and put air pressure in the crank case and about a 3 foot long silicone like sludge came out of the drain before the gasoline. i decided to pull the engine and remove the crank case cover to find this.20190310_195027.thumb.jpg.03a11402e7dfeb55c572dd196c1308e6.jpg20190310_195035.thumb.jpg.20c73ea369906eaeb642f65b02a4c419.jpg

the oil pump gear was so brittle i broke it when taking the engine apart. the cylinders look good so i plan to clean everything up hone cylinders and put in new rings while i have it tore down. then install new oil pump, governer  assembly, and re assemble with new gaskets and seals.

20190310_195435.jpg

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MrSteele

Different machine, same symptom and result. Years ago, my company bought a Koering track hoe at auction. It was running during the sale, and several hundred miles south of our location. We had seen it in limited operation. When we bought it, we also paid for delivery.  As with everything else one does with used equipment, we were going to service it, so we parked it in the service bay. The next day or so, the mechanics started. New fuel,air and hydraulic filters, even change of hydraulic fluid, but the oil plug, when removed allowed nothing to drain. We heated the oil pan with a torch and got a few dribbles. To get the oil? out, we had to remove the pan and dig it out with scrapers. Apparently, whatever it was stayed on the bearings really well. But, the new oil made the engine sound like something inside was trying to get out of the engine with hammers. Engine torn down, there was little bearing material left on the rods, mains were a little better, but not by much. I found out in casual conversation later, that the engine had started knocking, oil was drained and the system filled with STP. It still knocked, even with pure STP. They decided to sell rather than rebuild, so tapioca was added while the machine was running until the knocking stopped

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gwiseman
11 hours ago, s_stephen said:

I went to drain oil in a kohler command 20 yesterday that i got in a parts tractor and when i opened the drain valve nothing came out. i had tested compression on the engine before and it turned over fine and had perfect compression test and dipstick showed full of oil. i then tryed to flush the engine with a little gasoline and still nothing drained. i then removed the dipstick and put air pressure in the crank case and about a 3 foot long silicone like sludge came out of the drain before the gasoline. i decided to pull the engine and remove the crank case cover to find this...

the oil pump gear was so brittle i broke it when taking the engine apart. the cylinders look good so i plan to clean everything up hone cylinders and put in new rings while i have it tore down. then install new oil pump, governer  assembly, and re assemble with new gaskets and seals.

 

11 hours ago, maxwood said:

Hello, when I see stuff like that I think of STP or motor honey ,you don't see slick 50 advertised anymore. 

Thanks Ken in Mi

Haven't thought of Slick 50 for a long time Ken. 

Stephen, whatever it is it looks to have been in there for a long while. I had an ex brother in law that bought a new Ford tractor to clean out the barns. From the day it was new till the farm sale several years later he never changed the oil; just refilled as needed and changed the filter once in a while. Then started adding STP in the later years. I rarely buy new vehicles or machinery but tales like these give me nightmares. 

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s_stephen
25 minutes ago, MrSteele said:

Different machine, same symptom and result. Years ago, my company bought a Koering track hoe at auction. It was running during the sale, and several hundred miles south of our location. We had seen it in limited operation. When we bought it, we also paid for delivery.  As with everything else one does with used equipment, we were going to service it, so we parked it in the service bay. The next day or so, the mechanics started. New fuel,air and hydraulic filters, even change of hydraulic fluid, but the oil plug, when removed allowed nothing to drain. We heated the oil pan with a torch and got a few dribbles. To get the oil? out, we had to remove the pan and dig it out with scrapers. Apparently, whatever it was stayed on the bearings really well. But, the new oil made the engine sound like something inside was trying to get out of the engine with hammers. Engine torn down, there was little bearing material left on the rods, mains were a little better, but not by much. I found out in casual conversation later, that the engine had started knocking, oil was drained and the system filled with STP. It still knocked, even with pure STP. They decided to sell rather than rebuild, so tapioca was added while the machine was running until the knocking stopped

it is amazing what people do to cover up a proablem rather then representing the pice of machinery truthfully and not screw the buyer.

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MrSteele
14 minutes ago, gwiseman said:

I had an ex brother in law that bought a new Ford tractor to clean out the barns. From the day it was new till the farm sale several years later he never changed the oil; just refilled as needed and changed the filter once in a while. Then started adding STP in the later years. I rarely buy new vehicles or machinery but tales like these give me nightmares. 

I cannot argue with his logic on oil change/removal. My truck, a 95 Ranger, had the oil changed at break-in, and one time after I changed the filter at recommended intervals, and added oil. I developed an oil leak at the pan gasket, so had to drain the oil to remove the pan to change the gasket, at some over 176,000 miles(odometer broke at 176..gasket changed 3 years later)Engine innards visible when pan was off? A few carbon trails, but clean otherwise, with few deposits in the bottom of the pan. They told me I would wear the engine out "prematurely" by not changing the oil. That truck is the third vehicle I have treated thusly, the others traded off with well over 200,000 miles I have only used STP in engine rebuilds, on the bearings before assembly, never as an oil treatment

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PhanDad

@s_stephen

I know you're not way up north with Marty (@MPH) , but seeing your pics reminded me of Marty's " 50 below oil pics":

Mobil 1 10w30:

Marty_45below_mobil1_10w30.jpg.772845f50d5b240d5143827caa06839e.jpg

Marty stated " I have long felt from watching the oil presurre gauge when starting the pickup that Mobil 1 loses it after 40 below"

chevron 5w30:

Marty_45below_chevron_5w30_.jpg.7cd3ef60b36b619181fa03adf78a99b9.jpg

delo 400 30wt:

Marty_45below_delo400_30w..jpg.37d757f4b29646710302c9a37bd6f62b.jpg

For any newbies interested in the 2003 posts:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/41736-joejpics-of-30wt-oil/

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/41778-cold-temp-oil-flow-test-new-pics/

 

 

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RAC

That one's been cooked! (way overheated) Look at the color of the inside of the crank case. Also accounts for the brittle gear.

Tore down a SB Chevy once. Sort of same thing, remove oil plug... nothing. Had it in a stand so zipped out the oil pan bolts and dropped it off, whaddya know the pan was full. There was a soup can sized column of "oil", you know, like a can of cranberry jelly at Thanksgiving, sitting on top of the oil pick-up.

Never seen anything like it, don't know how it ran.

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RAC
6 hours ago, MrSteele said:

I cannot argue with his logic on oil change/removal. My truck, a 95 Ranger, had the oil changed at break-in, and one time after I changed the filter at recommended intervals, and added oil. I developed an oil leak at the pan gasket, so had to drain the oil to remove the pan to change the gasket, at some over 176,000 miles(odometer broke at 176..gasket changed 3 years later)Engine innards visible when pan was off? A few carbon trails, but clean otherwise, with few deposits in the bottom of the pan. They told me I would wear the engine out "prematurely" by not changing the oil. That truck is the third vehicle I have treated thusly, the others traded off with well over 200,000 miles I have only used STP in engine rebuilds, on the bearings before assembly, never as an oil treatment

I believe it was "Harvard" that used to sell the wound paper oil filters and suggested that you never really wear out the oil it's the dirt and contaminants that cause the problems. Memory serves they were proponents of changing the filter and not the oil and then conducting regular oil analysis to monitor for wear.

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ShaunE
7 hours ago, s_stephen said:

it is amazing what people do to cover up a proablem rather then representing the pice of machinery truthfully and not screw the buyer.

You are correct & that baffles me to no end.

Especially with Socialist Media like Spacebook & My Face.  All it take is for one person to have a bad or misrepresented sale & your credibility is called into question publicly.  Not worth it to me.

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gravey72

Just curious, never ran into this before and hope I never do... Does the dipstick read normal? Is there a way to tell off the dipstick or smell? What exactly do you guys mean by stp? Is that a oil treatment? I've heard of stp but they make plenty of products. Thanks!

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wwbragg
3 hours ago, gravey72 said:

Does the dipstick read normal?

Back in the old days, when looking at a used car we would always check the dipstick.  It would LOOK like it had oil in it but the oil would be real thick and sticky.  You could draw a string of oil between your thumb and index finger.  Actually, when a 6 oz can was MIXED with 5 quarts of regular oil, the stuff wasn't too bad  because it would stick to the bearings just like between your fingers.  But if that's all that was in there, well, that's just not right - - - watch Matilda again.

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MrSteele
On 3/11/2019 at 4:12 PM, RAC said:
On 3/11/2019 at 9:36 AM, MrSteele said:

I cannot argue with his logic on oil change/removal. My truck, a 95 Ranger, had the oil changed at break-in, and one time after I changed the filter at recommended intervals, and added oil. I developed an oil leak at the pan gasket, so had to drain the oil to remove the pan to change the gasket, at some over 176,000 miles(odometer broke at 176..gasket changed 3 years later)Engine innards visible when pan was off? A few carbon trails, but clean otherwise, with few deposits in the bottom of the pan. They told me I would wear the engine out "prematurely" by not changing the oil. That truck is the third vehicle I have treated thusly, the others traded off with well over 200,000 miles I have only used STP in engine rebuilds, on the bearings before assembly, never as an oil treatment

I believe it was "Harvard" that used to sell the wound paper oil filters and suggested that you never really wear out the oil it's the dirt and contaminants that cause the problems. Memory serves they were proponents of changing the filter and not the oil and then conducting regular oil analysis to monitor for wear.

I based my first vehicle on the local government agency, TVA and their service practices, and a chemical engineer at a local paper mill. He agreed to analyze if I would let my engine be the guinea pig. At oil change intervals, I changed the filter and gave him the removed filter, which he destroyed, searching for metals from the bearings. Well, we quit trying to find any at around 180,000 miles on a 1986 Ford Ranger. I traded it for the 95 that I am driving now. The other vehicle was my wife's Ford Escape, traded off at 230,000 miles. All we ever found in the filters were carbon deposits. Checking the oil a few days after the filter change, and topping the oil off, and the new filter cleaned any remaining carbon. The oil on the stick looked new

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MrSteele

There are some on the market today, such as greased lightning that are even better. I got ahold of a racing formula Slick 50 many years ago, that improved my mileage on the 86 Ranger. I should have bought the whole case. When I tried to get more, the parts store said that the warehouse made a special effort to pick it up, remove it from the store

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