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AC710

can you tell if a Briggs engine has been rebuilt?

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AC710

I am working on a new-to-me 7016, and pulled the engine to paint the frame. I assume it is the original Briggs 16 hp. The engine appears quite clean without seal or exhaust leaks and other telltale signs of age. I was wondering if there is any way of telling if it has been overhauled - like maybe marks or unsealed bolts that would give away a takedown. The engine runs well, but I haven't run it enough to tell if it burns oil or lacks power. I know it had a carb overhaul a few years ago, and a P.O. added a tractor-style muffler and exhaust, but I can't tell much else. Given the wear on the tractor from snowplowing, it has plenty of hours. Thanks

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Chris727

If the piston is marked with an oversize such as .010, .020, or .030 it has been rebuilt, though it could have also been rebuilt with standard parts. 

Edited by Chris727
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Talntedmrgreen

I have seen a number of various sized Briggs singles come through here in tractors, with a foil serial number tag overtop the original serial number.  I was always told that those were 'factory rebuilds'.  I have never pulled a head to confirm, and agree with Chris, a peek under the head might answer your question right away.

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deebig

Not really unless it was a botched job. Over sized pistons is not an absolute clue......sometimes the factory will do that to salvage a block that received a defect when it was bored.

 

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AC710

 

9 hours ago, tadams said:

You have the engine out it won't take that much to pull the shroud and check and clean the fins while it is off.

Yeah - I knew that, just needed someone to tell me I did dOd.

I may have to  build a work table over the shell, 'cause it's just hangin' out now.

 

20190318_211633_resized.jpg

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MrSteele

There are just a few bolts to remove to get the shroud off. Then, you have a good look at cooling fins to blow out remnants of mice, dirt daubers, collected trash, etc. I took a 23D apart last summer that had minimal wear.0025, I believe I was first in the engine, though it is a 64 model. None of the bolt heads were rounded or scarred in any way, usually a tell tale sign of a rebuild. I did find this last fall....Brand new, never had gas or oil in it

5c9114ec3f58b_SearsBriggs.thumb.jpg.b5cc4ec8fc0b2f50c26c0d5b24856196.jpg5c9114fdceaa7_SearsBriggsNumbers.thumb.jpg.490956cf6fd9077ac9d0cdc1b90e2ced.jpg

That is the original starter rope that came with it

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AC710
3 hours ago, MrSteele said:

I did find this last fall....Brand new, never had gas or oil in it

Pretty nice barn find. Where did you get it? Is the bottom dark from sitting in the dirt, or just a shadow in the pic? Have you found an application for it, yet?

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MrSteele

Was found in a garage a few miles south of me. I bought it from Facebook Marketplace. The dark on the bottom is lost paint, where it sat, likely in the dirt on a rotted pallet. Use? I have absolutely no intention of using it. It sits in my shop, oilless and a new tank. It will continue to sit there as a collector's item, until the right collector makes me an offer. I could have made a few bucks on it before getting it home

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kwt
On 3/18/2019 at 9:36 AM, deebig said:

Not really unless it was a botched job. Over sized pistons is not an absolute clue......sometimes the factory will do that to salvage a block that received a defect when it was bored.

 

What is rebuilt? I bored one over size because the bore was shot. I did some porting, milled the head, and installed and oversized piston, rings and head gasket. Same old crank bearings, seals, rod &cap. Didn't paint it. Runs like a top. The only reason it needed a piston after 40 yrs, is because the carburetor [freeze plug/end cap/whatever you call it] came off and sucked in a bunch of dirt and grass. Who knows how long it would have went? 

 

If it runs good fly it. It ain't an air plane.

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AC710
On 3/18/2019 at 10:30 AM, AC710 said:

While taking things apart I lost a washer that may have dropped into the fan shroud.

Well, I finally got to take the shroud off today and cleaned out all the crusty dusty gunk. It really wasn't too bad, mostly just oily dust, but a good chance to blow out all the cooling fins and the flywheel. And that miscreant washer? I found it stuck to the flywheel magnet, poised to wreak havoc on the magneto at the first spin. So, thanks for the advice to keep me going on this.

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TimJr
On 3/18/2019 at 7:35 AM, Talntedmrgreen said:

I have seen a number of various sized Briggs singles come through here in tractors, with a foil serial number tag overtop the original serial number.  I was always told that those were 'factory rebuilds'.  I have never pulled a head to confirm, and agree with Chris, a peek under the head might answer your question right away.

Josh, do you have any pics of these foil tags?  I don't recall ever seeing anything like that or ever heard of a "factory rebuild" by Briggs.  If I remember right, a short block came with a sticker to add to the shroud to indicate the engine had been shortblocked. The sticker was used to identify that the short block was different than the original internals.  That sticker should not have been placed over the original model/type/code, since those numbers would still be needed for parts not related to the new short block.  It should be placed adjacent to the original numbers.

I know Kohler K-series had a +.003" piston that they would use on factory error blocks.  I had heard of them and finally tore one down a number of years ago that had a clearly marked +.003" piston.   Briggs may have done this, but I haven't seen or heard of it.

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MrSteele

Crapsman was famous for adding a foil sticker with their part numbers over all brands of engines. See my pic above..the foil tag is the Crapsman part number, affixed just below the Briggs numbers. That is old machinery, later model used a Craftsman tag in place of the engine ID tag. That way, you had to go to Sears to buy parts

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Talntedmrgreen
On 3/21/2019 at 10:39 PM, TimJr said:

Josh, do you have any pics of these foil tags?  I don't recall ever seeing anything like that or ever heard of a "factory rebuild" by Briggs.  If I remember right, a short block came with a sticker to add to the shroud to indicate the engine had been shortblocked. The sticker was used to identify that the short block was different than the original internals.  That sticker should not have been placed over the original model/type/code, since those numbers would still be needed for parts not related to the new short block.  It should be placed adjacent to the original numbers.

I know Kohler K-series had a +.003" piston that they would use on factory error blocks.  I had heard of them and finally tore one down a number of years ago that had a clearly marked +.003" piston.   Briggs may have done this, but I haven't seen or heard of it.

Unfortunately, this is the only one I have.  I never really thought enough of them to take pictures.  None were motors original to the machines or equipment.  I had a bronze 8hp repoqered 725 that I recall distinctly, and have seen that bronze 8hp in several other FDT's since.  

20130808_183722.jpg

3 hours ago, MrSteele said:

Crapsman was famous for adding a foil sticker with their part numbers over all brands of engines. See my pic above..the foil tag is the Crapsman part number, affixed just below the Briggs numbers. That is old machinery, later model used a Craftsman tag in place of the engine ID tag. That way, you had to go to Sears to buy parts

I have seen those tags as well, but have never owned a Sears/Briggs product.  Perhaps they were taken from a Sears product or purchased from Sears for repower on the machines I've seen them on?

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TimJr

Josh, is the type and code ground off that engine?  Hard to tell from the pic.  If the type and code are ground off, I would really doubt that it was done by Briggs.  Without the type and sometimes the code, you would never be able to correctly get parts for it.  I don't have another explanation or reason why there is another sticker there, but the Sears thing mentioned above seems legit to me.  Would still seem odd if the type and code are ground off that it would have been worth it to them/Sears to actually grind those numbers off.  That would require them to have documented what the Briggs numbers were to the new number on the sticker so they could provide you with the parts.  That is a lot of effort by a company to go through.  

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MrSteele
On 3/18/2019 at 8:36 AM, deebig said:

Not really unless it was a botched job. Over sized pistons is not an absolute clue......sometimes the factory will do that to salvage a block that received a defect when it was bored.

 

I have not seen such in lawnmower engines, but I agree it is possible. Ford used to be famous for doing just that to engines in the 50s. I took a 6 cylinder apart in a 54 Ford, 5 cylinders standard, one cylinder .030 oversize. Flatheads rarely had all cylinders the same size that came through our shop, some even had undersize bearings on one or 2 rods. It would be conceivable for Briggs to have done the same thing

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