Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

mcd

Sad Day for my KT17 Series 2

Recommended Posts

mcd

Hey guys. I posted last year after I restored my hand-me-down 7117.

 

Yesterday I was just finishing up mowing the yard when my engine fell apart. It made a few weird sounds and then just shut off. I'm assuming I threw a rod but I'm not very mechanically inclined so I don't know for sure. 

 

Any recommendations on what I should do from here? I'd like to get it up and running again ASAP but I'm assuming finding a replacement and installing won't happen as quick as I would like. I've been considering getting a ZT to do my lawn and just have the Simplicity for other work but don't know which way to go for ZTs. Any input is greatly appreciated.

 

 

IMG_20190506_202656.jpg

IMG_20190506_202703.jpg

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mcd

Since I got the tractor about 2-3 years ago I have taken great care of it too wah The P/O (my dad) was not very good at keeping up with oil changes and other maintenance so I'll push the blame to him.

 

I'm assuming the final straw was when I was turning around the front of the tractor was angled up (pic below of my path) causing the oil to shift. I have since read that is where the KT17S2's have issues. I didn't know that before :(

 

 

faA9iBm.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GregB

I have read that zero-turns and slopes do not play well together.

I had a series 2 do the same to me. 

 

Options for a transplant would be Briggs Single, Kohler single, find another used Kohler twin, K series or magnum.  Also there have been a few postings on the Harbor Freight conversions.

There are a couple of repower kits out there from commercial establishments, usually not cheep.

Watch Craigs list etc. for a donor or replacement tractor while you fix the broken parts.

 

I'm sure more will chime in...............

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mcd

Thanks for the reply @GregB

 

That slope is extremely steep so I don't plan to mow it with a riding mower or ZT or I would certainly not live to make another post on here. Other than that area my yard is mostly flat so I think a ZT would work great. I certainly want to fix up the Simplicity but I think that project is going to take some time and my grass isn't going to be patient with me -_- 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SmilinSam

I would opt for a single cylinder Kohler to put into it for a replacement. Would have to change driveshaft length and work out a muffler, but the kt muffler an be used with a few mods.

Best to try and buy one that is in another machine and can bee seen running AND working.

Wiring would stay the same.

 

If you buy a ZT do your research before you buy. I bought one to try, a ferris built 20/50 Simplicity. Paid $2700 for it from a local deere dealer who had taken it in on trade.  It had 200 hours on it when I got it. Ran and worked great. Drive belts for the deck are expensive. I sold it before it got to the 500 hour mark as the drive pumps (2) and drive motors(2) are $500-$600 each and have a normal problem free life expectancy of  around 500-600 hours. At least that was what my research at the time was yielding.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fishnwiz

I have contemplated going to a zero turn but did not realize maint cost were that much higher..what the heck was I thinking?  500 hrs seems to be on the low side?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShaunE

All the above advice is solid advice.  Another option would be a re-power with a Kohler Command engine or a Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine.  Wiring again & driveshaft length will have to be changed.  Both of those re-powers have been documented here on this site.  I've even seen one with an opposed twin Briggs IC engine installed.  If using the Predator or the Vangard & maybe even the opposed twin Briggs IC, you will also need to shim the height of the engine.

In the download section there is a copy of a re-power kit instruction that was sold by a well known dealership owner who has since passed away for installing a Kohler Command engine.

If you want to continue to use it on that hill, you will surely want an engine that definitely has an oil pump.

I know your air filter says Series II & I'm NOT saying it's not, but it does not have the removable block-off plate on the right hand side for an oil filter adapter.  That being said, I've heard there were in fact Series II engines that did not have that provision.  There is a serial number break to determine as well if it is a true Series II engine but the serial number plate & the air filter cover are removable & can be changed without others knowing.  If it has the block-off plate or a filter adapter & filter installed, then you know for sure & aren't guessing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhanDad

Looking at the red line on your pic, if that's where you were and not further up on the hill, I'm surprised a true series II cratered.  I guess if the oil pickup becomes dry because of the angle, the engine could crater.  

And I thought the main issue with the KT's was running parallel to the slope, not up/down.  I've run my Command powered tractor on such terrain.  I'm thinking something else caused the engine to crater.  Plasitc timing gear maybe?  

I've definitely used my splash lube single cylinder Briggs on slopes in both parallel and up/down directions and they're still running.  

I also agree with the advice above about a replacement engine.  Kohler single or Briggs single would be easiest and probably cheapest (Briggs single would require a wiring change from battery ignition to magneto ignition). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhanDad

You might find a suitable KT in another brand tractor such as this ad I stumbled upon:

00q0q_jP7ZpG63tSC_1200x900.jpg

Don't know if its a Series 1 or 2, but only 608 hours.  At $695 for the whole tractor, you could probably take the engine and part out the rest and come close to a free engine.

 https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/grd/d/harleysville-wheel-horse-175-twin/6878038660.html

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SmilinSam
5 hours ago, fishnwiz said:

I have contemplated going to a zero turn but did not realize maint cost were that much higher..what the heck was I thinking?  500 hrs seems to be on the low side?  

Thats what I thought. But thats what I honestly was reading at the time. Its not like 500 hours arrives and they just self destruct, but the chances for failure go up as time beyond that mark accrues.

 

That was around 2007 or so, 10- 12 years ago. Talked to guys using zt's commercially , and read owner accounts at the time. One guy here locally uses $10,000 Graveleys commercially and he routinely has to change out drive components as time accumulates.

 

On a $3000 machine I wasnt interested in taking chances on spending money like that. On a $10,000 ZT that kind of money becomes sort of cheap in a way...

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShaunE

Series II started at engine spec no. 24400 in 17's & no. 49200 in 19 hp engines. If series II; it is pressure lubricated even without a filter or filter adapter mounting provisions in engine casting. It will have a very small pipe thread plug front right side of engine in an oil  galley ( for the oil sentry engine shut off switch that I doubt was ever provided -that a gauge can go in, with correct copper tubing fitting) 

 Quoted from @Rfp55 in the next posting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mcd

Just checked and here is the stamp on the engine:

 

image.png.f7394a53e1123e39f5d42647c8486f04.png

 

I just assumed it was Series 2 due to the label on the air filter cover.

 

image.thumb.png.a69745ddb3ca12eb78db86cb8404dcf5.png

 

I knew I had discussed adding an oil filter before on this forum but I don't think this model was capable of the add on.

 

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll have to do some searching now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brettw

As my research has taught me, all the KT and Magnum engines have an oil pump and a pressurized system.  The differences between them are that the KT Series I only pressurized the main bearings and not the rod bearings.   The Series II added additional pressurized oil to the rod bearings.  The Magnums are basically a Series II with electronic ignition, and I believe all came with an oil filter setup.  Not all KT's came with the oil filter setup.  Some, depending upon the use, (CUB I think) had a remote filter setup.  The block off plate, I believe, can be removed and a filter adapter added to any of them.  All of that being said, they do not have a large oil capacity.  If they are run a bit low, or on a steady incline over the recommended operating angle, they will starve and cause unpleasant outcomes.  Any of the above repower options are good advice.  Some are way easier and cheaper to accomplish (direct fit KT for example).  Some would require a different ignition system (Magnums, Briggs, Commands), as the KT series are battery ignition (battery power is supplied to the coil for spark, battery power is cut off to the coil to eliminate spark), and some of the other systems (Briggs for instance) are ground to kill.  Spark is generated by the engine magneto/coil and the spark itself is eliminated by grounding the spark.

 

Good luck on this either way.  If you are going to be running at steeper operating angles, I am not sure I would recommend going back with the KT or Magnum options, and perhaps research the specifications for more forgiving operating angles on other engine possibilities.

Edited by Brettw
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mcd

I found a JD L130 on Craigslist for $300 with a Kohler CV23S engine. Would this be a good option? I tried to find the repower document in the downloads section but didn't have any luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeES

I have never blown a KT or Magnum myself, but I have 5 KTs with the same ventilation hole as yours.  (got the engines for free for parts)  I have seen several others and they all blown the same...broken left cylinder rod, poking a hole on the right side by the dip stick.  So right blocks are impossible to find.

I did have a KT19 that I recently sold that was repaired, hole welded up, new rod, ran very good.  Yours looks like too much damage for that solution.  I have converted my KT tractors (3) to M20s.  I would look for an M18 or M20, usually rings is all they need.

Other than installing a relay for the ignition, your old KT will supply all the parts you need to make a M18 or M20 work from any tractor in your 7117, including the muffler as Brett as pointed out.

Edited by MikeES

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhanDad
12 minutes ago, mcd said:

I tried to find the repower document in the downloads section but didn't have any luck.

Here's one I wrote that's in the "Articles" Forum:

https://simpletractors.com/articles.html/articles/engine-repair-rebuilding/kohler-triad-replacement-command-r12/

It's for a Kohler CH install into a newer Sovereign, but most info would be valid.

And a link to Al's repower instructions in the Downloads Forum:

https://simpletractors.com/files/file/56-repower-instructions-of-900-7100-tractor/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kwt
On 5/7/2019 at 6:53 PM, PhanDad said:

I've definitely used my splash lube single cylinder Briggs on slopes in both parallel and up/down directions and they're still running.  

And worse. Put a set of 9" rims on my 7016h equivalent Homelite to flatten the tires, pretty much sit on the up slope fender, and can mow my ditch.

 

I shouldn't.

Edited by kwt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rfp55

The break from series I to II on the 17 hp was spec# 24300 not 24400 as I incorrectly posted last night. Many on here probably know that. I gathered correct info from GTT ( some expert types there) sometime year/s past and  now am eligible for the "Latest Senior Moment" thing. My apologies, you do have a ventilated series II. The definitive feature would be the female Allen plug to the right of the new hole and dipstick. Series one should have smooth unthreaded hole with a Welch plug in it. I do have a series II  with no oil filter adapter provisions and have heard of others. Still tapped for the Oil Sentry switch though. 

Edited by Rfp55
Changed spec number to 24300, error
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • oldorange
    • WKostiwa
    • Chris727
  • Today's Birthdays

    No users celebrating today
  • Recent Status Updates

    • Paul M.Murphy

      Paul M.Murphy

      Hello glad I got on this site. I hope to upload a couple of photos of my Simplicity Broadmoor 
      Model 707 Tractor. I have replaced all the belts on it and installed a new ignition switch.
      Have a mower deck which was in poor shape , repaced a couple of bushings and welded the
      deck where there was some holes. The tractor and mower deck came from a friend and the 
      mower deck metal was getting pretty thin. Some new metal was put in it and we also undercoated the underside of the deck. This was done by my friend Greg Toulman.
      I have not put the mower deck on the tractor yet, waiting for Greg to come home and give me a hand. Can you please tell me if there is a manual for the mower deck and where I could get one.
      I would also like to get some moon wheel discs as well.
      I will try and down load some photos of the tractor when my wife shows me how to. 
      I really love driving this tractor and also how well it is made compare today's tractors, especially the flexible rear end and the rollers.
      Tell the next time 
      Paul
       
      · 9 replies
    • jbrooks

      jbrooks  »  Talntedmrgreen

      Josh
       
      folowing  this from a link at the downloads.  I just rescued an AC 920 with the lambodini diesel. I can' t download  yet .  Where did you find the PDF copy you posted. . I would like to figure out how to adjust the injection pump. 
      I assume it's a bosche, correct
      · 0 replies
  • Adverts

×