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Bird76Mojo

Simplicity 7119 ignition switch advice needed

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Bird76Mojo

My Simplicity 7119 wouldn't start today after shutting it down. It won't even make the solenoid click. I went over the wiring looking for faults, and jumped the starter solenoid and it cranked over. I've checked the circuit breaker and it had continuity, and power does go through it to the ammeter, and also comes out the other side of the ammeter. I also have power in two spots in the terminal that plugs in to the back of the ignition switch. Both red wires.

I suppose it could be the starter solenoid is bad, as I forgot to probe the blue wire to see if the ignition switch sends current to the signal pin on the starter solenoid.

The tractor has been repowered with a Briggs 18hp opposed twin before I got it. Engine model number 422435-4098-01 

My ignition switch looks VERY rough, and the plastic wiring plug that connects to it, the internal terminals aren't in the best shape, but seem to be making connection from the probing I did with my meter. I think the switch is bad, but I might also need a new wiring plug for the back of the switch. I pulled a switch from a parts tractor (716 Allis) looks the same but won't start the tractor. The harness on the 716 also has one less wire in the plug..

The ignition switch I removed from the 7119, the key says Indak and the switch appears to have the model number C497644 and is a 5 terminal switch. It looks like the one in this thread:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/61188-7117-ignition-switch/?tab=comments#comment-488255

https://simpletractors.com/uploads/monthly_2018_07/IMG_0408.thumb.jpg.e882501c90ec0e24a334812e1a80f78d.jpg


Can anyone give me any advice on how to test my switch to determine whatever new one I'm getting will be the same? This one is in stock near me at Advance Auto Parts: https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/prime-line-ignition-switch-7-01850d/11783872-p?c3ch=PLA&c3nid=11783872-P&adtype=pla_with_promotion&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrfeUrd-e4gIVDVYMCh1XkwCUEAQYBSABEgLrt_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds



 

 

Edited by Bird76Mojo

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Brettw

The 7119 was originally a Kohler KT19 horizontally opposed twin.  If it was replaced with a Briggs single, that is a different ignition system.  Before you do anything however, I would suggest you check to make sure your PTO and Hydro lever are in the start positions (hydro in its neutral detent, PTO off).  Don't ask me why I know this can be the simplest of fixes, which then requires you to attempt to kick yourself in the keister.  Not an easy, if deserved task.

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Bird76Mojo

It's a Briggs opposed twin. 18hp. It's been wired in to the original 7119 harness and functions well, at least until today. I've been operating the tractor and fixing/maintaining it for several years now, so I'm familiar with the operating requirements.

Thanks for the response.

Same as the engine shown here, basically: http://d2ydh70d4b5xgv.cloudfront.net/images/a/b/18hp-briggs-stratton-422437-0721-opposed-twin-engine-1-x-2-13-16-horizontal-19a599176a067685cd125481590487ab.jpg

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Ronald Hribar

There are two different ways to convert from battery ignition to magneto system

one is to replace ignition switch

second is to rearrange wires in wiring plug

if the switch in the 716 is for battery ignition (Kohler)

you may have harmed Briggs ignition coils

I agree with Brett

check your safety switches

seat. PTO. Transmission neutral switch. 

Much more likely to be that

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BLT

You can salvage wire harness by installing a Bosch relay . You use the ignition wire to power the relay and then have a dry circuit ground to ground Briggs magneto. The M20 wire is the same function as the Briggs wire.

KohlerKTtoMWirerevisions.jpg

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PhanDad

As stated above, there are many ways to convert an OEM battery ignition to a magneto ignition.  You have to figure out how it was done.  Here’s a post that should help:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/58597-re-wire-tactor/?tab=comments#comment-469791

Since you state you have power at the ignition switch, I’d check the “start” terminal to see if you have power there, if you do, follow the circuit along until you find the broken continuity.

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PhanDad

Another post with some info about repurposing a KT wiring harness:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/56107-rewire-7119-to-magneto-ignition/?tab=comments#comment-450882

And a marked up diagram when I converted a KT17 Kohler to Briggs:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/55090-7117-engine-swap/?tab=comments#comment-158368

 

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Bird76Mojo
2 hours ago, Ronald Hribar said:

There are two different ways to convert from battery ignition to magneto system

one is to replace ignition switch

second is to rearrange wires in wiring plug

if the switch in the 716 is for battery ignition (Kohler)

you may have harmed Briggs ignition coils

I agree with Brett

check your safety switches

seat. PTO. Transmission neutral switch. 

Much more likely to be that

When I plugged in the switch from the 716 it didn't do anything at all. It never clicked the starter solenoid, and I saw no visible smoke, etc. 

I assumed my Briggs 18hp opposed twin was a battery ignition type of engine. I guess I don't know the difference between magneto ignition and battery ignition engines?

The tractor has no safety switches wired in the circuit anymore, except for the hydro lever neutral position switch. I checked continuity on it's terminals, and it seems to function when depressed.

What I do know is the tractor won't attempt to crank at all. If I apply 12v to the small pin on the starter solenoid, it will crank over, but the ignition switch does nothing right now.

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PhanDad

Battery ignition = +12V applied to an ignition coil. When the voltage is removed, spark stops. 

Magneto ignition = no battery power needed. All ( at least most) hand pull start engines are (were) this type. Either points or an electronic device breaks the ground circuit as magnets on the flywheel pass by the magneto coil creating spark. Permanently ground this side to prevent spark. 

So as others have said, even though the ignition switches look the same, they do different things and it’s best to check the switch functionality with a VOM to make sure the switch does what the engines needs (+12V for start/run and 0V for off - battery ignition OR no ground for start/run and ground for off - magneto ignition) 

 

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Bird76Mojo

I appreciate all of the replies everyone. Thanks a million.

I found out what my problems were. 

#1 - The ignition switch was acting erratically and was just generally corroded badly, both on the body and the terminal connections. The replacement from Advance auto worked well for me, and it was cheap with the 25% discount coupon I used online.

#2 - The wiring plug that connects to the back of the switch had several broken terminals that the "springy" part had snapped off of. I found some spare spade connectors on my Allis 716 parts tractor, removed them from the plastic connector and installed them into mine after connecting/splicing the wires.

It now fires up stronger than it has for years.

I tilled the garden with it again and managed to get 50lbs of seed potatoes planted, as well as a very long "row" of various melons and pumpkins. I still have at least two more days of planting to do. I have two very large gardens.

Next up is some rust patching on the 48" deck. I got the blades and blade bolts replaced yesterday, but it was one step forward and two steps back. Turns out it also needs several spindle bearings replaced. So I'll have to locate the part numbers for them and get them ordered soon.

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kwt
On 5/16/2019 at 7:54 PM, Bird76Mojo said:

I have two very large gardens.

It's 4:00pm and 42 degrees. I don't plant peas or potatoes. My hot shot corn needs warm temps. Waiting.

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