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Alltractoredup

Legacy 25HP just shuts off after 30-45 seconds

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Alltractoredup

Here is my issue....My Legacy with a 25HP Kohler Command just started shutting off after 30-45 seconds to a minute.  After about 10-20 seconds, there is a click from the engine that I believe may be the fuel shut off solenoid clicking.  As the engine quickly dies, it also backfires. Also, once the engine shuts down, if I turn the key switch over to start the engine I get nothing, not even a click. Its like the battery is completely dead or unhooked.  It is not until I hear the click from the engine that I have power and can start tractor right up. I am guessing for some reason the fuel shut off solenoid is closing off fuel.  Is this a safety feature???  It happens whether I am driving it or letting it sit running.  Engine does not need to get up to operating temperature.  It happens if it sat all day.  

Engine info:

Spec:  CH730-0014

 

Edited by Alltractoredup

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MARK (LI)

I think it would be hard to hear the solenoid over the sound of the engine ...the solenoid is to prevent fuel from flowing after the key is turned off to prevent backfiring.in a gravity fed system...doesn't that engine have a fuel pump?....It sounds like a fuel pump problem...if it has a solenoid, and it is closing, preventing fuel from flowing...it would (theoretically) prevent backfiring

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Alltractoredup
23 minutes ago, MARK (LI) said:

I think it would be hard to hear the solenoid over the sound of the engine ...the solenoid is to prevent fuel from flowing after the key is turned off to prevent backfiring.in a gravity fed system...doesn't that engine have a fuel pump?....It sounds like a fuel pump problem...if it has a solenoid, and it is closing, preventing fuel from flowing...it would (theoretically) prevent backfiring

I hear the fuel solenoid click after the engine has shut down for 30-45 seconds. I did some investigating and I think the fuel solenoid is losing power and that is what is causing it to close.  The previous owner jimmy-rigged a seperate wire just for the solenoid to the key switch that I never noticed until today.  

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PhanDad

Parasitic drain somewhere causing the circuit breaker to open?

This would kill the power to the ignition switch which in turn would kill the power to the fuel solenoid. 

And until the circuit breaker resets, the tractor wouldn’t restart.  

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Brettw
9 minutes ago, PhanDad said:

And until the circuit breaker resets, the tractor wouldn’t restart.

I agree with Bill, sounds like a breaker.

Edited by Brettw
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Alltractoredup

Ok, this sounds like a challenge I dont like. Electrical is not one of my strong suits.  Anybody willing to share their knowledge where I should start with the multi meter?

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Ebailey

I think there is a circuit breaker on the firewall, on the left side as you are sitting on it.  I don’t remember exactly what it controls but that might be something to check.  

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MARK (LI)

But if the OP hears the solenoid closing  after the engine dies....it's not the  solenoid causing the problem...but sounds like some other electrical problem.....like that breaker...which would be stopping continuity for the whole electrical system.....except, I think that would cause the solenoid to close right away....not 20 seconds later...I would trace that "jimmy rigged" wire and remove it...I believe it is causing that "parasitic drain" referred to by Phandad....possibly grounding itself out somewhere...check its insulation that it is not rubbing on the chassis or the engine anywhere...this is going to be a lot of trial and error

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Alltractoredup
9 hours ago, Ebailey said:

I think there is a circuit breaker on the firewall, on the left side as you are sitting on it.  I don’t remember exactly what it controls but that might be something to check.  

Yes, I did a little more digging and the circuit breaker clicks and shuts power off to tractor.  After 20-30 the circuit breaker clicks back and I am able to start the tractor until it dies again.  I will check out that wire to the solenoid and go from there.  

Thanks all for your help so far.

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Alltractoredup
10 minutes ago, MARK (LI) said:

I am wondering if the breaker is just bad and prematurely "overheating"...does it look something like this?

 

DSCN3322.jpg

I checked mine and it looks very new, but being under the hood it could be a year old and still look good.  

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Alltractoredup

I did some other checks before tearing into the fuel solenoid just because I felt it was good measure anyway.

I unplugged the following, cleaned and inspected them and hoped it stayed running:

Front PTO, Rear PTO, Light switch, and electric deck height adjustment.

The tractor still dies even if any single one is unplugged.  I only unplugged one item at a time and plugged it in after dying before trying next plug.  

Next step is to pull off carb and trace fuel solenoid wire

Other question is, if my volt gauge on the dash shows that it is charging correctly at 14 volts, could the rectifier still be overheating?

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PhanDad

Thinking about this a bit more, if it’s a Command and wired like a Sovereign, it should stay running even if the main circuit breaker opens from the battery. The fuel solenoid would stay open from the power from the voltage regulator.

So maybe the problem is the voltage regulator having an issue.  Have you tried running the tractor with the voltage regulator unplugged?  

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PhanDad

Another check would be to start the engine, then disconnect the engine harness connector. If you still have the issue, the problem is in the engine wiring.  If not, problem is in the tractor wiring. 

 

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Alltractoredup
1 hour ago, PhanDad said:

Another check would be to start the engine, then disconnect the engine harness connector. If you still have the issue, the problem is in the engine wiring.  If not, problem is in the tractor wiring. 

 

Interesting, I will check that.  Thank you!!

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Alltractoredup
1 hour ago, PhanDad said:

Thinking about this a bit more, if it’s a Command and wired like a Sovereign, it should stay running even if the main circuit breaker opens from the battery. The fuel solenoid would stay open from the power from the voltage regulator.

So maybe the problem is the voltage regulator having an issue.  Have you tried running the tractor with the voltage regulator unplugged?  

I tried unplugging voltage regulator, but it is tough, wont come off easy.  I will give it a try later today when I battle the tractor again.

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PhanDad
8 minutes ago, Alltractoredup said:

I tried unplugging voltage regulator, but it is tough, wont come off easy. 

Spray the connector with WD40 and wiggle it, wait, and see if it’ll come off.  On my Sovereign, the regulator ears are bent flush, so the connector comes off parallel to the regulator. 

 

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Alltractoredup
7 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Another check would be to start the engine, then disconnect the engine harness connector. If you still have the issue, the problem is in the engine wiring.  If not, problem is in the tractor wiring. 

 

I am a little confused with the result from unhooking engine harness.  When I start tractor and it's running, I unplugged the engine harness.  The engine died immediately.  

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Alltractoredup

Two things just happened

Thank you Bill!!!! Voltage regulator is the culprit.

Also, I found that the cylinder opposite the voltage regulator is lightly spitting out oil around the headgasket....

So I guess I have a little work ahead of me.

Thanks again for all that chimed in and I hope I can return the favor some time

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Ebailey
16 hours ago, Alltractoredup said:

Two things just happened

Thank you Bill!!!! Voltage regulator is the culprit.

Also, I found that the cylinder opposite the voltage regulator is lightly spitting out oil around the headgasket....

So I guess I have a little work ahead of me.

Thanks again for all that chimed in and I hope I can return the favor some time

How tough was the regulator to change?  Mine is overcharging and I need to replace it.  Looks like a tight fit down there below the oil cooler.

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Alltractoredup
2 hours ago, Ebailey said:

How tough was the regulator to change?  Mine is overcharging and I need to replace it.  Looks like a tight fit down there below the oil cooler.

Have not done it yet, simply because it is very tight.  I think I will pull engine to change it

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Ebailey
9 hours ago, Alltractoredup said:

Have not done it yet, simply because it is very tight.  I think I will pull engine to change it

Yea I was afraid of that too.

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