What is wrong with this picture?

[MrSteele]

I know it is the wrong color machine, BUT. I was recommended to a friend of a regular customer for what they said was an old John Deere. Turned out it was purchased in 1985. Nowhere near old by my standards. Anyway, it was taken to the local John Deere dealer for service and repairs, after being stored in a garage for many years. (Son got from mother after Dad died). The John Deere folks said it needed a new carburetor, and such is almost as scarce as buying a decent Clinton 3 HP vertical shaft engine.After keeping the machine for several weeks, they were told a carburetor is NLA, and they should come to look at a new tractor. 

Well folks, someone tell me why the thing would never run, even if it started. You mechanics, hold your tongues, this is for the folks just getting started tinkering

The owner had paid for a wash job and fluid change. I do not work on nasty mowers, and it took me nearly an hour to get the grunge off the engine. They had half A** washed the plastic outside. Owner paid for a new air cleaner element that apparently, is invisible, because I could not find one. They had removed the carburetor(never did) and found it to be broken? I know the ears on the float pin are susceptible to breakage, but the carburetor bolts were coated in grunge, did not have a socket on them in the last?? years.

And I need  a needle and air filter element, will have to get from the same shop that tried charging this man over $700.00 to look at this tractor. I believe in Capitalism, but that is ridiculous!

[PGL]

When you save this machine and the owner you will be a legend in the area.  The JD dealer is killing future business, must feel they have an effective monopoly.

[fishnwiz]

I would be RIPPING that dealer a new U know what on the W W Web. That's ridicules and should be a crime.

Edited June 20, 2019 by fishnwiz

[wwbragg]

1 hour ago, MrSteele said:

I believe in Capitalism, but that is ridiculous!

That is not capitalism.  That is just plain FRAUD.  Tell your client to sue the JD dealer in small claims court for the $700 based on your findings.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by wwbragg
spelling

[MrSteele]

We have a bunch of pictures of work charged for, but not performed, even sharpening of the blades. The must have a good product to recreate rust after sharpening..gotta get me some of that!

Was pure varnish in tank, and I am trying to find out how to replace the fuel line without tearing the whole machine apart. I put a gallon or so of fresh gas in the tank,and it is barely dribbling out. The same shop told a buddy of mine his Stihl TS420 was going to cost over $400 to repair. I put a new plug and fuel lines on it....

2 hours ago, PGL said:

When you save this machine and the owner you will be a legend in the area

I do not want to be a legend. This is merely a hobby of mine, to make old things putt again. Need to finish my 65 landlord so I can finish the M1 2 wheeler, rebuild an engine for a mid 70s Yazoo, start on a couple other Yazoo builds, and get started on the Ariens and 64 Landlord. I think there is an early 60s Ford out there somewhere..., and then there is the Strunk, Remington SL2, David Bradleys out the ying yang....Repairs for the public are not what I want to get started!

[jlasater]

I paid $50 for a JD 316 tractor that burns oil. It still does, but the electrical problem the PO was quoted multiple hundred $$$'s to fix ended up being a $19 regulator. Shops just amaze me some times...preying on the unsuspecting or uneducated.

[fishnwiz]

Local shop near me charges 150 dollars to pickup and diagnose tractor issues ON TOP of labor charges of 100 an hr for repairs  ..obviously,  they would rather sell you a new tractor than do  the repairs which I understand is business but they at least should TRY to make an attempt at the repairs in "Good faith" if they are going to rob people of their hard earned money..

Big box stores are the same villains selling " throw away" tractors to the general populace but people want " Cheap" .and have become complacent when it comes to general maintenance.

I guess the above situations DO help out a lot of us here on this site a little by making it possible for us to score a deal on a cheap tractor or do quality repairs for others but it STILL a sad excuse for the throw away society we have become as a whole, .... than again MOST of us are buying the vintage stuff from back in the day ,that was built to last AND are worth fixing.  . JMO

 

[Chris727]

Was the estimate for a job total of $700 repaired, or were they charged $700 for inspection?  

[ShaunE]

3 hours ago, Chris727 said:

Was the estimate for a job total of $700 repaired, or were they charged $700 for inspection?  

Based on @MrSteele's post, this person was billed for this.  I wouldn't think it would be too hard to at the very least, prove the air filter was neglected to be replaced based on the pictures provided.  As far as the configuration of the arrangement of the fuel pump lines,  Someone had a due diligence to take this back to the dealership to prove the discrepancy BEFORE it was cleaned up.  You can say there were no wrench marks in the grease on the carburetor bolts all day long & I personally would believe you.  But have your "Client" prove it to the dealership.

Unfortunately this is the case across the midwest as well with dealerships that don't have the experience as the "older" people that have worked through similar issues in the past.

[gwiseman]

11 hours ago, fishnwiz said:

Local shop near me charges 150 dollars to pickup and diagnose tractor issues ON TOP of labor charges of 100 an hr for repairs  ..obviously,  they would rather sell you a new tractor than do  the repairs which I understand is business but they at least should TRY to make an attempt at the repairs in "Good faith" if they are going to rob people of their hard earned money..

Big box stores are the same villains selling " throw away" tractors to the general populace but people want " Cheap" .and have become complacent when it comes to general maintenance.

I guess the above situations DO help out a lot of us here on this site a little by making it possible for us to score a deal on a cheap tractor or do quality repairs for others but it STILL a sad excuse for the throw away society we have become as a whole, .... than again MOST of us are buying the vintage stuff from back in the day ,that was built to last AND are worth fixing.  . JMO

1. "obviously,  they would rather sell you a new tractor than do  the repairs" 
2. "the people want " Cheap" and have become complacent when it comes to general maintenance

All day long you are correct on these points Mark. There is also the labor factor you reference. Al used to talk about proper maintenance often. One specific message he penned was about Command engines running for thousands of hours (upwards of 10k) on rigs that operated round the clock. And Josh has stated many times he's seen  Command powered Legacy tractors with upwards of 2k hours still running like a top. However, we also see Commands all the time with 400-600 hours needing complete rebuilds. So many people have never been taught to maintain an engine and besides, it takes a extra effort. My "new" garden tractor is now 17yrs old. I may need to overhaul tomorrow but I bought it new, put nearly 700 hrs on it, and I hope it operates till I let some young guy take over the mowing duty.

I can see the dealer/mechanic side of business as well though: parts and labor are high inputs. But quality parts and labor is worth a lot and it appears this customer did not get quality from his dealer. I'd be making a call to the company if I didn't get satisfactory resolution from that dealer.  

[MrSteele]

8 hours ago, ShaunE said:

Was the estimate for a job total of $700 repaired, or were they charged $700 for inspection?

The customer was billed for parts and labor for new deck belts(did that), the $200 wash job..washed the outside plastic, still grungy under the seat..$250 for inspection, that revealed a new carburetor was required. I flushed the tank yesterday. There was zero fuel flow to the carburetor, I am not certain how a new carburetor would be diagnosed without fuel delivery? They billed for blade sharpening that was not done, and somehow wound up at $700. They kept the tractor for almost 3 weeks, hunting for a carburetor that would not fix the machine, anyway. I have the carb soaking in cleaner right now, all I could find wrong with it is the need for a new needle.

But, can anyone find a problem with the picture? I was amazed when I saw it the first time, that a shop that works basically on John Deere equipment would do such on their own toys.n A hint...the tank is under the seat.

[fishnwiz]

Sorry I hijacked your thread. ..The con job that was done to the owner of the tractor had me so POed that I forgot to look at what you were getting at. 

[gwiseman]

1 hour ago, MrSteele said:

The customer was billed for parts and labor for new deck belts(did that), the $200 wash job..washed the outside plastic, still grungy under the seat..$250 for inspection, that revealed a new carburetor was required. I flushed the tank yesterday. There was zero fuel flow to the carburetor, I am not certain how a new carburetor would be diagnosed without fuel delivery? They billed for blade sharpening that was not done, and somehow wound up at $700. They kept the tractor for almost 3 weeks, hunting for a carburetor that would not fix the machine, anyway. I have the carb soaking in cleaner right now, all I could find wrong with it is the need for a new needle.

But, can anyone find a problem with the picture? I was amazed when I saw it the first time, that a shop that works basically on John Deere equipment would do such on their own toys.n A hint...the tank is under the seat.

1. $200 wash job (wow) that really wasn't a wash job
2. Expensive (miss) inspection and diagnosis
3. (no) blade sharpening charged
4. (no) new air filter

I agree with you Joe.  I applaud you for what you are doing - help our your neighbor who obviously got the snookered by the dealer.  I would also encourage the owner to dog that dealer for a refund for what obviously was not done and/or done wrong. Pictures are worth a lot here. Then, if not satisfied they should

1. send complaint to BBB,
2. write a complaint to the state Attorney General consumer protection department, and
3. complain to the mother company 

Somewhere along this line the dealer is going to wake up if they want to stay in business. Don't stop at one communication to any of the above (squeaky wheel theory). 

[Wilbur643]

Well on my 92 JD with the Kawi the fuel line from the tank goes to the fuel pump first.

[MrSteele]

57 minutes ago, Wilbur643 said:

Well on my 92 JD with the Kawi the fuel line from the tank goes to the fuel pump first.

Yep, it was supposed to go to the fuel pump on this one, too. the tank under the seat indicates a fuel pump is located somewhere, since gas, like most fluids will not flow uphill. And, I got the tractor straight from the JD shop, fuel lines as shown. When it would not start, they said "carburetor". Their connection to the carburetor would have been a problem, but the worst is the fuel flow was barely a drip. I flushed the tank yesterday. First flush drain of a gallon of gas took nearly an hour, now it comes out almost as quickly as it goes in. I have full flow on the valve at the bottom of the tank. That valve also begs the question..to access it, one must remove the left wheel and deck to turn the gas off. A lot of aggravation to turn off the gas. I suppose it is there so one can replace the fuel line without draining the tank?

2 hours ago, fishnwiz said:

Sorry I hijacked your thread. ..The con job that was done to the owner of the tractor had me so POed that I forgot to look at what you were getting at. 

Not a problem. I have been asked by many folks to go in business, and this shop is one of the reasons. They are the local JD dealer, have branches all over north Alabama, all with ridiculous shop prices. I have wondered for years how they stay in business. Enough commercial customers, I guess, that do not work on their own machinery, just want it fixed so they can get back in the yards they mow for a living. Like I said above, I do not want the business. But, someone gave out my phone number, dang it!

A few years ago, I did let a few folks know I was willing if they were, and was extremely busy in the shop making decent money. It took me nearly four years after I stopped doing work for other folks to want to restore my old junk. I avoided my own shop so prospective customers would not stop in with their problems. Where I live, if my garage door is open, so am I, and this time of year, the door is always open

Back to my 65 Landlord today, while waiting for Kawasaki parts! She is almost ready to take a test drive

 

 

[fishnwiz]

10 hours ago, MrSteele said:

I do not want the business. But, someone gave out my phone number, dang it!

I hear ya...1st big snowfall and my phone is ringing off the hook. Past customers who bought tractors from me hand out my number like candy. I love how people expect to drive up and have their tractor fixed and returned within a day when there is a month wait at their local dealer.

[Chris727]

Pretty high price for a wash. We don't charge for washing on serviced lawn equipment. Have to wonder why they would repair the deck before ever getting it running? 

[MrSteele]

12 hours ago, Chris727 said:

Pretty high price for a wash. We don't charge for washing on serviced lawn equipment. Have to wonder why they would repair the deck before ever getting it running? 

I wash everything before working on it, I hate working in sloppy grease if I do not have to. The mower was sent to the shop for a "do what it takes to get it running" situation. The mower has been sitting quietly in a garage for years without being used. One of the things to do was new belts and sharpen the blades. The belts were changed, the oil changed and a less than half a** wash job was done. They put on a new fuel filter, then routed the line so as to bypass the fuel pump. When it would not start, Carburetor was the reason..Well, not so.

The needle had a nasty ridge, so I ordered one, and since I have seen the floats deteriorate, look perfect, but will not float, got one of those, too, along with the air filter. It has fire, will get gas when I put it back together, so, that should solve all the problems. Yes, I will sharpen the blades, but I don't have any of that pretty rust paint they used to make a blade look rusty after sharpening

[MrSteele]

Update

The owner stopped in Saturday morning to take pictures of the deck/blades. I removed a blade and sent it with him. He went to the JD shop, blade in hand. They said they would sharpen his blades, since he had already paid for that service, very nice of them! He said he was able to talk them down on the price he was supposed to pay, until he was happy with the replacing of the oil and the 2 belts that were actually replaced. He even had before and after pics of their wash job and mine. They allowed him to not pay for the $200 wash job. At least the shop got a bit of comeuppance!

[fishnwiz]

Great job Joe. 

I would have loved to be in that shop when the owner of the tractor put them in their place....The NERVE of them. I wonder how many unsuspecting people were taken advantage of by that shop?. If the shop has a website I would be sure to leave an honest and informative review. 

 

[MrSteele]

Many unsuspecting folks are taken advantage of, or have had the attempt made to do so. They are also a servicing dealer of Stihl products. The amounts people pay for having that work done is horrendous. Very few shops around have 2 cycle talent. If something can be repaired, I do so. Occasionally, it is cheaper to replace parts due to labor of a repair, but, their customers pay full list price for all parts, and added to a labor rate of around $100 an hour, it don't take long for a repair to add up. I am not a shop, do not want to be, but if the customers keep calling, well..

John Deeres have parts available ONLY at John Deere. I hate to have to go out there to buy parts, try hard to come up with substitutes where possible. That is why I usually tell folks that I do not work on them. This tractor belongs to a friend of a friend, and I could have passed it on to another shop I trust, but, I have taught the owner a few things, and when he comes to get his machine, I will be able to show him a real tractor..a 65 Landlord! He did like my new to me almost new 1974 Yazoo, then noticed a lot of other old toys. That interest was worth the aggravation of having the off color machine in the shop!!

[fishnwiz]

Unfortunately,  when it comes to having your Stihl products serviced, it's cheaper to toss them instead of paying someone to rebuild or repair. I also do my own Stihl repairs if it worth it....at least a guy can find parts on ebay if need be.