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MrSteele

St Florian, we have a problem with A 65 Landlord

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MrSteele

OK, the engine was rebuilt, the BGB rebuilt, a bunch of improvements to the steering, front end, paint, etc. I need a new battery charger, OK, understand why I had to boost it off. The engine wanted to go, but. When it started, I shut it down because of a howling noise. I started again, same howl. I know it is not in the engine.

A screwdriver to the ear test reveals that I have the end play of the cross shaft adjusted properly, sounds like bearings running as they should, no noise other that the shaft turning inside them.But there is a loud HOWL.

I am assuming, and will try tomorrow..that I have connected as the factory paperwork shows, all the spacers between the drive shaft and engine, and drive shaft and BGB, should be in place. When I tore it down, there were no spacers between the drive shaft and the universal discs, at either end.  Something has changed? I put it back as close to spec as possible, but the noise is coming from the input shaft to the BGB, again, according to the screwdriver test.

I will remove the spacers between the discs and the shaft, on both ends, and put it back as it was at disassembly.

Anyone else had this or a similar problem?

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Bill725

The 1965 Landlord 9 has the older/small BGB, meaning 3/4" shafts and bearings. One of the issues recently brought up related to the small BGB is, the original design of the RH seal is no longer manufactured, NLA, and has been superseded with a seal that meets the ID and OD requirements, but is not the same thickness. The original seal, P/N 154278, thickness was 0.437", whereas the superseded seal P/N 2168006SM, is 0.250" thick. Understanding on the RH side of the BGB, all of the parts are drawn up tight, meaning when you tighten the lock nut on the RH end of the shaft, it pulls the shaft to the right causing the shoulder on the shaft up against the bevel gear, which in turn pushes the gear up against the inner race of the ball bearing, the outer race of the ball bearing pushes up against the seal, the seal pushes up against the shims and the shims bottom out on the side plate. Based on a recent post, my understanding to resolve the seal thickness issue is to use two seals for a total thickness of 0.500" and use 0.063" (0.500" - 0.437") less shim to make flush with machined side plate mounting surface. Another way would be to make a tube spacer to fit the ID of the back of the seal and make the thickness appropriate so the seal and spacer thickness is 0.437" like to original seal design. This is what is used on the newer/big BGB with 7/8" shafts and bearings. When done correctly there should be absolutely no cross shaft end play and the correct gear clearance.

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MrSteele

Well, my build is the reason the seal being NLA was brought up. After much discussion about the seal, I found 2 on Ebay that were NOS, and put one in. Well, with the seal installed and shimmed correctly, there is still a growling in the gears, caused by the gears being too close. The shop manager, Bill at Sandy Lake and I discussed the problem at great length. We decided that the bearing should be shimmed, seal installed, then any difference taken up by the factory shims between the BGB and side plate. Apparently, there were some killed housings, or a bearing spun, or? causing the bore to be deeper than intended. I am in the process of installing a shim between the bearing and the housing, By my measurements, a shim of .012 should make all things normal, but that is a calculation. I will take it apart tomorrow and measure exactly. 

When I removed shims to reduce the growl, I created endplay, according to the manual, the shims are installed between the seal and side plate only to bring the seal/shims flush against the side plate. At flush, I have endplay that I am not supposed to have at around .038. I am going to attempt to shim the bearing the get the proper gear lash, then shim between the seal and bearing to get the proper endplay. Will let you know how that goes

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MrSteele

Update:

Sideplate off, seal ruined, bearing out. With a depth mic, the shoulder is 1.072 from the machined surface on the outside. Distance to the gear  was measured after removal of the rear tire, to be able to get a 6" caliper in the space. I thought that the outer face of the gear was closer to the outside of the housing than the shoulder, thus, shim the bearing. With the new knowledge that the shaft was attempted to be turned and something may have been amiss inside, everything back in place where it belongs, the gear face is .009 beyond the ridge, as it should be. Was told between .009 and .012

I had a "helper" in the shop before I bolted it all together. He was back last week to help with cutting 50 lbs of onions for a church function, making chicken stew for a 4th of July church fund raiser, and attempted what he had done the week prior. He told me that he had tried turning the shaft before I bolted together and could not turn anything. Last week, he had a PTO pulley to hold on to, and was able to spin the shaft easier. He thought it would have a lot of endplay since he could pull the shaft out from the sideplate. This person is a retired mechanical engineer! I thought I was going to have to break the tractor back apart to get the driven gear back into proper position to put it together, that maybe the gear was off the key. After a lot of colorful language and playing with the PTO pulley, I was able to get the gear back into position, I think, since I can turn the motor with the PTO pulley. I intend to add shims/washers behind the rope pulley to tighten the gear on the shaft. The shimmed seal is to reduce or eliminate endplay. My thoughts and discussions with another retired mechanical engineer during the all night stew stirring, is that the extremely well made chinese bearing may have some brinelling due to improper loading/tightening during the initial assembly of a shaft that was not in the proper place during assembly. He was in the shop during the onion cutting, and told the other one not to disturb the position of the shaft since it was not in place yet, but opened his mouth too late. I ordered another bearing and 2 seals from Motion.

I also checked with a shop manual that told nothing about positioning of the shaft with shims, other than shims are added to reduce or eliminate endplay in the stack. There is no torque value given for the nut. I had thought that goodentite with a long 1/2" ratchet might have been too goodentite, and that I might have to simply use a normal 1/2" ratchet to get it sort of goodentite. That overtightening could also have caused brinelling of the well made chinese bearing. I am going to replace it just to make me feel better.

Will let ya'll know how it worked, or didn't in a couple days

Edited by MrSteele
wording
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