pindude80 Posted July 10, 2019 Posted July 10, 2019 Hello All, this is my first post here. I have a Simplicity 5216. When I shut the engine off it won't re-start if the engine is up to operating temperature. Last night it stalled after I idled it down to get off the mower and wouldn't re-start. It's been like this for years and I usually don't shut it off until I'm done mowing but I had rebuilt the carb this past weekend and must not have it dialed in yet. About 11 or 12 years ago when we first got the mower we had to replace the ignition so I don't remember if it did this before the current ignition or not. Is this a known problem on these or did I maybe get a bad or cheap replacement ignition and if so is there a recommended brand I get to replace what I currently have?
pindude80 Posted July 12, 2019 Author Posted July 12, 2019 bump. I read some reviews on Amazon of the replacements and one guy said he had his on upside down, it was hard to start cold, and wouldn't re-start hot. Mine starts fine cold but I have the hot start problem so was thinking of see if I can flip the coil and if that makes any difference. Anyone heard of this?
fishnwiz Posted July 12, 2019 Posted July 12, 2019 4 hours ago, pindude80 said: bump. I read some reviews on Amazon of the replacements and one guy said he had his on upside down, it was hard to start cold, and wouldn't re-start hot. Mine starts fine cold but I have the hot start problem so was thinking of see if I can flip the coil and if that makes any difference. Anyone heard of this? Never heard about the coil flip but what does a guy have to lose for trying?
steve-wis Posted July 13, 2019 Posted July 13, 2019 Hi, Not starting when hot can be caused by a lot of things. If your valve stem gap is wrong the valves can be held open a bit even at closed position because of heat expansion. Or, you might have a fuel issue, sometimes the heat of the engine can cause a fuel lock. Or, if the coil is bad, it is typical that it would short out when hot but regain connection when cold. I would start with fuel, making sure you have gas to the carb when it won't start. If you do, then check for spark. If you have spark, I would then check valve gaps. No fuel can be caused by a bad breather hole in the gas cap also, if you don't have gas check that by loosening the gas cap and trying it. This should at least get you started in finding your problem, good luck! Steve
pindude80 Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/12/2019 at 8:26 PM, steve-wis said: Hi, Not starting when hot can be caused by a lot of things. If your valve stem gap is wrong the valves can be held open a bit even at closed position because of heat expansion. Or, you might have a fuel issue, sometimes the heat of the engine can cause a fuel lock. Or, if the coil is bad, it is typical that it would short out when hot but regain connection when cold. I would start with fuel, making sure you have gas to the carb when it won't start. If you do, then check for spark. If you have spark, I would then check valve gaps. No fuel can be caused by a bad breather hole in the gas cap also, if you don't have gas check that by loosening the gas cap and trying it. This should at least get you started in finding your problem, good luck! Steve Hi Steve, Thanks for the reply. I popped the air filter off and can see gas down in the carb and have tried spraying starting fluid down the carb when it does this but it won't fire. I have an inline spark tester and the last time it did that I hooked it up and the little bulb in it didn't light up like it should. I pulled the spark plug wire out of the boot and tried to ground it while cranking and got an intermittent weak spark so it appears to definitely be spark related. The weird thing is it runs perfect when running but if I shut it off I used to be able to restart within a few minutes and this last time I tried to re-start right away but it wouldn't fire.
pindude80 Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/12/2019 at 5:39 PM, fishnwiz said: Never heard about the coil flip but what does a guy have to lose for trying? Kind of my thought also.
MrSteele Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 Sounds like an ignition problem. Could be as simple as a mag air gap issue, or, the mag placed too far from the magnets. Most likely, though, a new mag should be on its way to you, if you do not have another good mag in your shop. I always keep a few of different styles just in case, for the older engines, always remove them and save them when junking an engine, usually due to excessive wear in the cylinders. I did the coil flip on a 20 HP Briggs earlier this year. My cousin bought a new mag for his mower and put it on, engine would not start at all. He called, I made a house call, and flipped the coil. The flip put the wires in an awkward position, but apparently that was the right way. He had put the coil on so that the wires seemed right. I likely would have done the same the first time. After flipping the coil, it started and continues to start and run perfectly. I do not see a coil flip helping in your situation, though. The engine will not run at all with the coil upside down 1
pindude80 Posted July 15, 2019 Author Posted July 15, 2019 I have gapped the mag with a moderately wide gap, maybe .030 and it wouldn't run then I gapped it really close, it seemed like it liked this best. I don't have any spares to try so I will probably just go ahead and order a new one. Is there a particular brand that is recommended for replacement? All that I see on Amazon are off-brands.
RAC Posted July 15, 2019 Posted July 15, 2019 .030? No it probably wouldn't run. Should be gapped with feeler gauges but in a pinch a standard business card isn't usually too far off. 2
tripleguy Posted July 16, 2019 Posted July 16, 2019 Mine does this as well. I can restart mine when hot with no choke, throttle all the way down. I would adjust your idle up a tad so it doesn't die and try it.
pindude80 Posted July 16, 2019 Author Posted July 16, 2019 I've tried all different ways combos of throttle and choke or no choke and nothing seems to work. Until I get a new ignition or get this one figured out I was just planning on not letting it idle down.,
MrSteele Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 The air gap. Take a piece of 20# bond copy paper. Fold it so that there are 3 layers of paper together. Slide those 3 layers between the mag and flywheel, loosen the mag so it can be moved easily, then turn the flywheel until the mag pulls up to the magnets through the paper. tighten the mag and remove the paper. The mag is set. What year model is your engine? These tractors have been repowered so many times, there is no way of knowing what we are trying to work on, or which ignition system you may have
pindude80 Posted August 1, 2019 Author Posted August 1, 2019 MrSteele, I don't think got a notification of your post and am just now seeing it, sorry about that. This is the factory Briggs 16hp engine model # 402707 0132 01.
MrSteele Posted August 1, 2019 Posted August 1, 2019 IS the same series as my Cousin's. If you flip the mag, it will not run. Try something novel? First, get a new float for the carburetor. Your float looks fine, but is possibly a bit saturated. His was, and he argued that a new one was not necessary, the engine ran with the new float, would not with the old float. His coil was also bad, so he changed it, installed it upside down because he did not pay attention to how it came off, and put it back because it looked right with the wires coming off the top of the mag. His engine would not start at all. He also followed my advice on gasoline additives and said his engine runs smooth, all the way to and including idle, something it has not done for years. I use Gumout brand, others swear by different brands, find one to suit your fancy. He also used Gumout because I recommended. Start adding a bit of Gumout with each tank fill until you see results, then add occasionally just because. 1
tadams Posted August 2, 2019 Posted August 2, 2019 I use gas additive year around because I never know which tank full of gas will be in all winter. 1
MrSteele Posted August 3, 2019 Posted August 3, 2019 I make the gas solution easy on me, just use the highest test I can find, 100% gas, usually 93 octane from a couple local stations on the way to our waterways. Marine engines like 100% gas, so they keep it for the boaters. Cheaper than at the marinas, too. If I happen to be walking past a mower with a bottle of Gumout, some goes in the tank, as well. I also occasionally pour a little oil into the gas. Makes a bit of extra smoke, but never saw it hurt anything
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