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68_Mag

Allis 4wd- Is this possible?

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68_Mag
This isnt mine, I didnt even take the picture. But- What does everyone think of this? Where can I get ag style tires like that? Is 4wd possible? http://www.tractorshed.com/gallery/tphotos/a6511.jpg

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Kent
I don't think that one is any more a 4WD than my Big Ten... it just has ag tires front and rear. You can get ag tires lots of places. Best prices I've found online are Cedar Rapids Tire or Tucker Tires (on eBay).... While it is certainly possible to make a 4WD given enough time, talent and money, it certainly wouldn't be either cheap or easy... the steering knuckles, transfer case and front axle/differential would all be complex problems.... http://www.simpletractors.com/images/big10_delux/Dcp00302_small.jpg

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68_Mag
Not to be rude but, for 4 wd, could you not just put another transaxle under the front axle and drive it off the mower pully on the engine? To turn, couldnt you just make some brackets so the entire transaxle turned?

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JonetteP
Hi, I asked the same question a while back. I received a response from someone who had done this on a jd. Himself and a friend had used hydraulic motors and found that it was difficult to steer. It would rip up the lawn. This was because there was no differential in the front motors. I have no doubt that it could be done hydraulically, but think it will be easier to use two transmissions that already have differentials in them. I think the idea of using two rearends is the best as far as cost. This would enable you to use 4 of the rear tires, and there would be no need to adjust pulley size to match tire speed between front and back. This has already been done in the pug atv line. I think it is an awesome idea and if you need any help, drop me an e-mail. I will build a 4x4 simplicty some day! Neal

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Kent
You couldn't turn the whole front axle unless the front of the tractor was high enough for the front tires to pass through underneath it on the sides when you cut the steering wheel -- otherwise you'd have a huge turning radius. It would take a good differential since the outside front tire in a turn has to travel much farther than the inside tire. The difference in travel on the front end is significantly more than on the rear end. Finally, you'd have to have some way to adjust and fine-tune the "gear ratio" to synchronize the speed with the rear wheels. Individual hydraulic motors mounted over each end of the axle would probably be the easiest way, as long as they had wastegates and variable flows. Then you could drive the wheels via chains or something down to the spindles outside the ends of the axle. The challenge then would be some kind of control to vary the flow from one side to the other, based upon how the wheels were pointing...

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BradW
REDAPPEL65 , read the DIY article posted by Kent and written by me, it has all the instructions needed to complete the job :),-BradW[A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/do_it/stack_muffler.htm'][img src='http://www.simpletractors.com/images/do_it/BW_Simp4.jpg'][/a]

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PatRarick
With enough time, money, and ingenuity, anything mechanical is possible. I have been toying with this idea for quite some time. As a scavenger, I have been thinking of options to use readily available, low cost (cheap) components. So far, I have concluded that an articulated design, like MPH suggests, is the way to go for four wheel drive. Simplicity, with it's BVB and inline power input into the transmision, creates a unique set of problems. With most other heavy garden tractors, two transaxles could be used with one engine, and coupled by a driveshaft with universal joints to accomplish the pivotal steering. That is basically how the large four wheel drive agricultural tractors are constructed. With Simplicity's design, the easiest way to go would probably require two engines/transaxles coupled together. To shorten each unit up, the BVB's could be eliminated and the engines mounted in place of the BVB. Manual transmisions would be the easiest to use in this type of unit, as only engine speeds would need to be synchronized. With hydros, engine speed and shift linkage would have to be synchronized. Front wheel assist is a possible option. A single speed transaxle, such as used in the box store riders, could be used for the front axle. It would reguire some machining to install universal joints and spindles to accomodate conventional steering, and the axle would have to be mounted at a 90 degree rotation so that the input shaft would face the rear of the tractor. Power would be transferred by a pulley or sprocket mounted on the brake drum, driving a second BVB mounted to the frame under the original BVB. A driveshaft would then run from this BVB to the front axle. The axle would be synchronized by the size of pullies or sprockets between the brake drum and the BVB. This would also allow for a shift linkage to engage or disengage the front wheel assist. These are just my initial findings. Almost everything is a surprise when the actual construction begins. Pat

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Woodydel
You can do it like this if you're a master machinist like Dan...I made mention of Dan as a supplier/fabricator of the wheel spacers previously...Woody The following is copied from the Cub Cadet site: Dan H's 4WD Cub Cadet is a full costom job that he built in his home machine shop. It's based on a model 100 Cub Cadet, and features a Dana (I think) front differential from a golf cart, and a custom-machined transfer case that Dan built in his shop. It can operate in either 2WD or 4WD, and if I remember correctly it's shift-on-the-fly too! Quite an amazing piece or work, Dan is a master craftsman and it's hard to believe the qualiy of his customs. To see some of his other work go to the homepage and chek out the feature on his Crawler custom http://www.ihcubcadet.com/discus/messages/5500/5975.jpg

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acjohn
I work for a company that makes the 4wd components for Polaris ATV's. I helped design the new front differential that they use. One of you mentioned that the ground got torn up. That is the advantage of our differential. It uses bi-directional overrunning clutches to drive each half shaft. The clutches overrun unless your ground speed slows enough to overcome the under drive at the front axle (rear tires begin to spin). This not only gives you positive drive to BOTH front wheels, like a solid axle or locking differential, but ALSO allows each wheel to overrun in a turn with.. are you ready... NO TURF DAMAGE!!! I know I'm biased about our products, but it does work. Ingersoll Equipment Co uses it on their 4wd loader and backhoe, as does PUG, Inc on their Wilderness series cargo all terrain vehicle. It is a purely mechanical system, is turned on and off with 12VDC, so you can have 2wd or 4wd... ON DEMAND. It really works. If I get time, I'll try to convert one of my tractors.

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Woodydel
This is another variation. Using hydros makes more sense to me. One pump to control and two transmissions for the drive..Articulation takes care of the larger wheels..Woody http://www.ihcubcadet.com/discus/messages/6565/6600.jpg

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Woodydel
If you went this route all you would need is a shaft or rather power transmission to the second BGB/transmission setup. Gear selection via cable etc...Sounds "Simple" yes..Woody http://www.ihcubcadet.com/discus/messages/6565/6599.jpg

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scottope
Hey everyone I heard thru the grapevine at work that the legacy will be offered in 4WD next year, haven't had confirmation as yet, but we'll see.. Mark at Scottlandscaping(at Home)[A href='www.scottlandscaping.com']www.scottlandscaping.com[/a]

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mowerman1193
There is a guy on the Wheel Horse club on yahoo that has made one out of two D-200's.I dont really know how to link the pictures but this thing is sweet.He has dual stacks on it.It is set up simalar to the Cub in the previous post. mowerman1193

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MPH
Think the most feasible way to make a double tranny four wheel drive is to make it a center pivot tractor. Down the line of a Stienner..Think it be a two winter project with some cash to blow,,MPH

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