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MTopp

Simplicity front axle pivot/wishbone bushing

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MTopp

Hey all, the pivot point of the front axle on this tractor is worn a bit. It had a bronze busing that wore thru so the steel was rubbing. You can see the flared part is the bushing around the steel shaft center.

Can't find the part on any diagrams, so I was planning on fixing the worn areas and buying a new bushing somewhere else.

Is this bushing normally on these tractors?

20200321_155048.jpg

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SmilinSam

As far as I know prior to the 2nd generation of 7000 series tractors there was no replaceable bushing. At first back in the 60's  there was just a hole bored into the frame bracket for the rear axle pivot pin to fit into. Then they reinforced that hole with a metal block welded to the frame  to make that bored hole thicker.

Somewhere in the  1976, 77, or 78 7000/700 series they started using a replaceble metal bushing block that bolted to the rear pivot pin part of the frame with 2 bolts. All the 900 series and later Soveriegn types had this bushing block.

I have on earlier tractors either widened the hole out and put in a round bushing for the axle pivot pin to fit into.  I have also on occasion ground off the metal reinfocement pad that was welded to the frame, marked and drilled the 2 holes and added the later bushing block found in the 900 /7100 series tractors.

About as much work either way really.

Usually have to also weld up the worn axle pivot pin and grind it back down to size.

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PhanDad

From the 3416H Parts manual:image.thumb.png.60bacc53f23478e7f6368bdfa1aa5967.pngI believe your looking for part 3, the bushing.  It wasn't show in the 3310 tractor parts manual (that I could find, any version).

The bushing is part #154289, the same part used for the front axle spindle bushings. It is 3/4" ID.

 

 

 

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SmilinSam
22 minutes ago, PhanDad said:

I see @SmilinSam is a faster typer than I.

Might be faster, but you may be more accurate.

In all these years, I have never actually seen or found one of those bushings in 3400 series tractor....and I have had alot of those tractors pass through my hands.

If indeed they put them in the 3400 series,  they must not last long in that application....

Edited by SmilinSam
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MTopp
49 minutes ago, SmilinSam said:

As far as I know prior to the 2nd generation of 7000 series tractors there was no replaceable bushing. At first back in the 60's  there was just a hole bored into the frame bracket for the rear axle pivot pin to fit into. Then they reinforced that hole with a metal block welded to the frame  to make that bored hole thicker.

Somewhere in the  1976, 77, or 78 7000/700 series they started using a replaceble metal bushing block that bolted to the rear pivot pin part of the frame with 2 bolts. All the 900 series and later Soveriegn types had this bushing block.

I have on earlier tractors either widened the hole out and put in a round bushing for the axle pivot pin to fit into.  I have also on occasion ground off the metal reinfocement pad that was welded to the frame, marked and drilled the 2 holes and added the later bushing block found in the 900 /7100 series tractors.

About as much work either way really.

Usually have to also weld up the worn axle pivot pin and grind it back down to size.

Ah okay, I'll have to look for a bushing to use then, may weld a plate on either side of the original hole with the right size hole to fix and then weld the shaft bit like you said.

48 minutes ago, PhanDad said:

From the 3416H Parts manual:image.thumb.png.60bacc53f23478e7f6368bdfa1aa5967.pngI believe your looking for part 3, the bushing.  It wasn't show in the 3310 tractor parts manual (that I could find, any version).

The bushing is part #154289, the same part used for the front axle spindle bushings. It is 3/4" ID.

 

 

 

Nice, I didn't think to look for the 3416 parts, that probably is it, if I can't find that then I'll probably retrofit one from grainger. 3/4 id x 7/8 od

 

Then may just epoxy it into place on the frame.

Edited by MTopp

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PhanDad

@SmilinSam, a bit more info.  

First, I never knew about the differences in the front axle rear support until I dismantled the 3310H I got last year for the Vickers rear end; all of my RBT's had the bearing block you described.  (My youngest Simplicity RBT is a later model 7016H).  Being the parts saver that I am, I figured I'd save the front axle.  I was surprised to see this when I removed it:

IMG_0285.thumb.JPG.faede66a49f26b3bf362302ea3fea908.JPG

As you can see, the bushing is worn away at the top right; with more use and resulting wear, I can see where it would just fall off as you have experienced.  

 

As I stated above, I didn't think the bushing was shown in the parts manual.  BUT... have a look at the bottom left of the IPL of the 3310H:

image.thumb.png.aef124b551e33944e5aaab6e51bb535a.png

What's part "C" all about; any gearbox bolts I've ever removed consist of a hex bolt and lock washer.  What's that spacer like item?  According to the corresponding parts list it's a "bushing" part # 108419.    Per Jack's, part #108419 now crosses to #1663114SM, a nylon bushing 5/8 x 3/4 x 3/4. Sounds like the old nylon bushing that inserted into the end of the old rubber deck rollers, I checked an old deck parts list and it is.  So I'm sure it's a wrong part number.  Your thoughts?

PS - @MTopp - Sorry to hijack this thread.

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Talntedmrgreen
14 minutes ago, PhanDad said:

Part #154289 is a split bushing.  Here's a couple of pics of a worn one in front axle spindle service:

IMG_9020.thumb.JPG.2a8a41c448cad3b5b72cb861849f3ea3.JPG

 

 

That's a 'good' one!  I've taken several out in pieces.  Sunstars seem to eat these worse than a Sovereign.  I've had them completely gone and the spindles trashed on Sunstars.  

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SmilinSam
4 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Your thoughts?

 

I dont know what they are trying to accomplish with part c in bolting the gearbox to the frame.

As to the metal bushing on the pivot shaft, thats a new one on me. I can see them doing it, but to me its a poor choice for the part as such a bushing probably wouldnt last long in that application. (maybe why I,ve never come across one still in the tractor ?)

They did get it right with the bolt on bushing block like used in the 7100 series. Those seem to last a long time.

Edited by SmilinSam
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maxwood

Hello, If you want to go extreme  here is a diagram of an additional  front axle support  I think it was built by Ray S 

Somewhere on the site is the thread to build it , I could not find it.

 

Thanks Ken in Mi

DSCN0383.jpg.cca8691front axle support.jpg

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PhanDad
1 hour ago, maxwood said:

Somewhere on the site is the thread to build it , I could not find it.

That front axle support plate was designed by @stevenj.  It's to better support the pivoting front axle (front connection) not the rear "wishbone" connection.  I  believe it's designed to fit the 7100 series tractors, but the idea could be adapted to other tractors.  A link to his post:

 https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/42538-front-axle-support-bracket

He also posted about an improvement to the rear support in this post:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/23550-front-axle-wishbone-greasable-rear-pivot/

@country also posted improvements he made to both the back and front of the front axle:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/23550-front-axle-wishbone-greasable-rear-pivot/

Enjoy.  

 

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GregB

When I put the Loader B110 tractor together, I bored out the pivoting and put a flange bushing there.

Also to an extra flange that used to hold up the lift shaft, and machined it flat and also bushed that.

Used that end on the wishbone end.

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MTopp
On 3/25/2020 at 2:25 PM, PhanDad said:

@SmilinSam, a bit more info.  

First, I never knew about the differences in the front axle rear support until I dismantled the 3310H I got last year for the Vickers rear end; all of my RBT's had the bearing block you described.  (My youngest Simplicity RBT is a later model 7016H).  Being the parts saver that I am, I figured I'd save the front axle.  I was surprised to see this when I removed it:

IMG_0285.thumb.JPG.faede66a49f26b3bf362302ea3fea908.JPG

As you can see, the bushing is worn away at the top right; with more use and resulting wear, I can see where it would just fall off as you have experienced.  

 

As I stated above, I didn't think the bushing was shown in the parts manual.  BUT... have a look at the bottom left of the IPL of the 3310H:

image.thumb.png.aef124b551e33944e5aaab6e51bb535a.png

What's part "C" all about; any gearbox bolts I've ever removed consist of a hex bolt and lock washer.  What's that spacer like item?  According to the corresponding parts list it's a "bushing" part # 108419.    Per Jack's, part #108419 now crosses to #1663114SM, a nylon bushing 5/8 x 3/4 x 3/4. Sounds like the old nylon bushing that inserted into the end of the old rubber deck rollers, I checked an old deck parts list and it is.  So I'm sure it's a wrong part number.  Your thoughts?

PS - @MTopp - Sorry to hijack this thread.

No worries, I actually saw that part also and thought it was the spacer for the axle bolt

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MTopp

Bought this bushing from McMaster-Carr:

2938T21 High-Load Oil-Embedded SAE 863 Bronze Sleeve Bearing, 1.25" OD Flange, for 3/4" Shaft, 7/8" Housing ID, 3/4" Long

Should work out and a collar to hold it in place.

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MTopp

@PhanDad @SmilinSam @maxwood

Maybe someone will see this:

The actual front-most pivot point on my axle - the bolt was loose so the bushing had weight/friction on it from the axle, holding the bushing static with the axle, which wore the bolt down instead of wearing the bushing and the axle down when they're properly tight - I think? Normal?

As in, when the bolt is tight, the bushing is clamped, preventing it from moving as the axle pivots.

Need to buy a new bolt and another bushing from McMaster-Carr, but not sure which type I should get.

Only found this one that matched size: 7943K32, but this one may be better and I'll cut it down 6391K745.

Turns out they still sell the OEM part also though: Simplicity 2157618SM

https://www.mcmaster.com/bushings/plain-bearing-type~sleeve/for-shaft-diameter~1-2f2-/for-housing-id~7-8/length~5-2f8-/

20200413_112132.jpg

Edited by MTopp

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SmilinSam

Axle does pivot on the bushing which bolts tight to the frame. Normally the bushing is what wears.

I've only ever used oem bushings.  All used ones saved from other dead tractors. I do usually buy new  grade 8 bolts and use along with some new washers when I am putting a wore out old tractor back together again after sprucing it up.

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PhanDad

@SmilinSam said it all.

Once I had to ream and "bush" the axle since the tractor was ran for so long with a loose bolt, the hole in the axle was egg shaped.  And the tractor was relatively new - a Sov18.  

 

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MrSteele

 On my Landlord, I centered and welded a 7/8 shaft collar in front of the angle, after grinding the collar to fit under the frame. That gave me enough room to install a flanged bushing. For cleaning and mayhaps a little lube, I bored and threaded the collar to accept a grease fitting. The nylon needs no lube, but a shot of grease now and then will keep the wearing surface clean. I used the set screw to snug the bushing in the collar. Not sure if this will work for anyone else, but I lost all the "flop" in the front end with this, and another flanged bronze bearing at the front, allowing the bronze flange to be extra bearing surface between the floating axle and front end. There was a flat washer there for a spacer when I took it apart. The angle bolts are in the center, allowing the angle to be placed in either direction

5e97321c2d71a_PivotBushing.thumb.jpg.160034231e9463cc53c05802304af836.jpg5e9731c985e30_Pivotrepair.thumb.jpg.5b00c775b40353cbb37be4cf1c0fc2bb.jpg

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MTopp
26 minutes ago, MrSteele said:

 On my Landlord, I centered and welded a 7/8 shaft collar in front of the angle, after grinding the collar to fit under the frame. That gave me enough room to install a flanged bushing. For cleaning and mayhaps a little lube, I bored and threaded the collar to accept a grease fitting. The nylon needs no lube, but a shot of grease now and then will keep the wearing surface clean. I used the set screw to snug the bushing in the collar. Not sure if this will work for anyone else, but I lost all the "flop" in the front end with this, and another flanged bronze bearing at the front, allowing the bronze flange to be extra bearing surface between the floating axle and front end. There was a flat washer there for a spacer when I took it apart. The angle bolts are in the center, allowing the angle to be placed in either direction

5e97321c2d71a_PivotBushing.thumb.jpg.160034231e9463cc53c05802304af836.jpg5e9731c985e30_Pivotrepair.thumb.jpg.5b00c775b40353cbb37be4cf1c0fc2bb.jpg

Ah, nice work there, that's a great solution.

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