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Dirt and grading machine?

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AC710

I recently traded out the rockshaft on my 7016 project tractor for a counterbalance-style shaft. I was thinking of mounting a rear earthcavator and front plow for a rocker-type earthmover system. Has anyone tried this? It would be - Plow down/earthcavator up; center for travel; earthcavator down/plow up. It's too muddy for me to try right now, but seems like it might work if I pay attention to the setup.

p.s. this isn't my earthcavator, mine is considerably rustier, but still works well.

blade liner small.jpg

gannonpaint02.jpg

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SmilinSam

Without a way to lock either attachment in the "up" position, its handiness is going to be quite limited. Mainly in that neither attachment will end up being very high off the ground when "centered".

Thats the great thing about the right hand lift setups. You have a separate lift for each attachment. You can lock one or the other up while you work with one. ...or both up to travel to the job.

You would be better off either buying or building a right hand lift to operate your blade independantly. Its not all that hard if you have some simple welding skills

 

After building and running several different tractors with the right hand and rear lift setups to operate 2 attachemnts, I settled in on what I have now.  A Sunstar with 2 hydrualic lift circuits. one that operates the front and center attachments, and the other to operate the 3 point hitch.

 

I can however, understand your interest in having the 2 attachmenst counter balance each other. Especially if you are using a manual lift. I just dont think you would be really happy with the results.

Edited by SmilinSam
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AC710
12 minutes ago, SmilinSam said:

You would be better off either buying or building a right hand lift to operate your blade independantly. Its not all that hard if you have some simple welding skills

Can the 7000 series tractors be set up this way? I actually have two spare standard lift levers but don't know if they can be adapted. I have seen some posts about this a while back but don't recall what it looks like. Without the counterbalance the manual lift is too much for my old shoulders and back.

I set up my 710 with a front winch-operated Johnny bucket (sears variety) and the earthcavator works on back with the electric lift. Might be best just to use two tractors if I want the front blade. 

20190920_134253_resized.jpg

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SmilinSam
43 minutes ago, AC710 said:

Can the 7000 series tractors be set up this way? .....

ithout the counterbalance the manual lift is too much for my old shoulders and back.

 

Yes, they had a oem right hand setup for the 3300/3400/7000 series, and it would also work on the 7100 series too. The hardest part to make is the quadrant that the lever locks onto. I had a original part to copy, so that helped greatly  a old Broadmoor 707 or 717 lift lever works best for a starting point for the lever. Ends up being a trial and error affair getting all the homade parts to work together using parts pages pictures for reference.

However, you would be lifting all the weight of each attachment with no counter weight.

 So, you could try just hooking the 2 attachments up and trying it. See what you think as to whether or not it will work for you. The only thing you will have to work with for adjustment is lift rod length. If you are using a solid rear rod, it is what it is. But for the blade on the front, you can use a newer style rod that uses the set collars. You can move them forwrd or back as you like to adjust.  You may be able to find a happy medium that suits you between transport height and working height.

Edited by SmilinSam

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AC710
2 hours ago, SmilinSam said:

The only thing you will have to work with for adjustment is lift rod length.

 I have run that earthcavator with a manual lift - it's a BEAST, and no fun!

On the front lift I have a rod with the collars and spring. The earthcavator is attached to the rear lift (cable-type) by a chain rather than the solid bars like in the pic I posted above, so I can shorten the chain and make front rod adjustments to get maximum lift on either end. I'm thinking that if I make the narrowest "V" possible out of the two implements it might just work. Center would lift both high enough to travel and change direction. Guess we'll see when things thaw out and dry up. I think it will be clumsy at best.

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hurleyii

My 912h has an electric lift and is setup in a counterbalence setup like y ok u have decribed. Based on what i have just done with my new Sovereign i would assume the cable for the tiller is installed on the wrong side of the rockshaft to obtain this. When ive attempted what you speak of in trying ise tiller and front blade to grade the ut bad spots it didnt work well as the tiller would be scraping ground with blade down or very close and vise versa. Now it would work decently for first pass on a Garden breaking sod and mowing on previous passes . However deck would have to come off for more then one pass as we dont get enough pickup on the deck to clear looses dirt. Also with the ease our parts change whats the point of the extra wear on engine, bgb and pto.

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ShaunE
4 hours ago, hurleyii said:

i would assume the cable for the tiller is installed on the wrong side of the rockshaft to obtain this

This brings up a good point.  If you are running the 38" tiller, the directions clearly state to route the cable on the opposite side of the rockshaft as compared to any other rear attachment.  @PhanDad has posted the directions a few times in the past.  

This would definitely allow you to work them opposite of each other.  But like Sam said.  The carry position for both may not give you adequate ground clearance depending on terrain. 

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AC710
4 hours ago, ShaunE said:

If you are running the 38" tiller, the directions clearly state to route the cable on the opposite side of the rockshaft as compared to any other rear attachment.

What is the purpose of rerouting the cable for the 38" tiller, since the only obvious effect is to change the lift lever so you push to lift? Also the recommended accessories include installing an electric lift. I have used a tiller with manual lift and it needs feet pushing against the running boards, legs and back to lift it. Seems it would be even harder to push-lift.

Since a tiller is so "tall" or thick, it can't be lifted very high. The earthcavator can be tilted up pretty well. I wouldn't want to try mixing a tiller with a front blade anyway. As for extra weight, that would help with traction, especially trying to push dirt. Grading and box-blading is pretty common with construction tractors so I thought it might be good to try.

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Talntedmrgreen

There was a front counterweight offered for the RBT's that would be ideal for this.  The trouble is, finding one.  I have seen folks stack weight on a front dozer blade hitch to accomplish the same.  With an adjustable rod, you can set it so that it remains at some amount of height for clearance when the tiller is raised.  Depending on what weight you and and how, you just need to avoid hitting your hood.  

 

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hurleyii
10 hours ago, AC710 said:

What is the purpose of rerouting the cable for the 38" tiller, since the only obvious effect is to change the lift lever so you push to lift? Also the recommended accessories include installing an electric lift. I have used a tiller with manual lift and it needs feet pushing against the running boards, legs and back to lift it. Seems it would be even harder to push-lift.

Since a tiller is so "tall" or thick, it can't be lifted very high. The earthcavator can be tilted up pretty well. I wouldn't want to try mixing a tiller with a front blade anyway. As for extra weight, that would help with traction, especially trying to push dirt. Grading and box-blading is pretty common with construction tractors so I thought it might be good to try.

As per your weight comment i have used my tiller as weight on back to snow plow with by making a special bracket to hold tiller up and disconnected it from cable. I dont remember exacatly how i did this but i do know i used the trailer hitch point with a threaded rod and nut. The rest i dont remember.  Iui t was a very nice setup as i got it stuck and it gave me the ability to stand on tiller and rock the tractor out using the hydro. 

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AC710
1 hour ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

There was a front counterweight offered for the RBT's that would be ideal for this.  The trouble is, finding one. 

I had not seen the counterweight for the Large Frame (RBT?) tractors before. If that is the reason for reversing the cable, it makes sense. Neither my 710 or 7016 had the reversing loop on the rockshaft, so for some reason they didn't offer that option for a while. I'm guessing that earlier tractors had the push-pull design for the rockshaft, then when they started using a cable it took a bit of time to dream up the reversing loop.  Did they just expect people would get an electric lift for the tiller? That is what the chart in my 7010 owner's manual recommends, and no mention of cable reversing or counterweights.

By the way, pardon my ignorance but what does RBT stand for?

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AC710
18 minutes ago, PhanDad said:

To act as a counter weight, you must pin it differently than in your pic:

 

So, it looks like the counterweight would act as a  front traction/steering weight if all four pins are in place and the lift rod is disconnected. To be a counterweight only the two rear pins would be used and the lift rod installed, correct?

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PhanDad
20 minutes ago, AC710 said:

Neither my 710 or 7016 had the reversing loop on the rockshaft, so for some reason they didn't offer that option for a while

My 1978 7016H (MFG# 1690342) has the reversing loop.  So maybe it was added to the 7000 series tractors when the HD tiller appeared?   I'm sure @SmilinSam or someone else can shed some more light on the subject.   

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ShaunE
11 hours ago, AC710 said:

What is the purpose of rerouting the cable for the 38" tiller, since the only obvious effect is to change the lift lever so you push to lift? Also the recommended accessories include installing an electric lift. I have used a tiller with manual lift and it needs feet pushing against the running boards, legs and back to lift it. Seems it would be even harder to push-lift

Here is the instructions.  It has been discussed before on why.  But no explanation from Simplicity has ever been published or posted.

https://simpletractors.com/uploads/monthly_2019_07/lift_hd_tiller.jpg.83d271920cea9116d616bbc014cd78ea.jpg

 

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AC710
40 minutes ago, PhanDad said:

Running Board Tractor vs the older Foot Drager Tractor (FDT as a B-110, etc) 

AHA, I knew it was a highly scientific acronym. You confirmed it, thanks! dOd.

Coming from government service where acronyms are used to confusticate everything, I like it.

I once went to a FEMA 3-day training that consisted primarily of defining acronyms for their many, many titled positions and committees. They have a published manual 1/2 inch thick that is solely for defining acronyms!  I'm not kidding. The most unfortunate thing is that they come right out and say they don't really do anything but route our money around, and all the work gets done by local resources like fire dept's, police, SAR's, etc. That doesn't say much for the Govt's ability to support us in a crisis.

Those local folks do a great job, no negative comment intended here for them (us). I am a retired State Forest fire fighter.

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Talntedmrgreen
12 hours ago, PhanDad said:

@Talntedmrgreen

To act as a counter weight, you must pin it differently than in your pic:

RBT4a_Josh.jpeg.jpg.f49693fea8b125b5b5941efd5434f452.jpg

Do you use just the back pin? 

 

Correct.  This is the stationary position.  I don't have a lift rod on board currently, and the Bark-buster is on the back, so this is just serving it's p[purpose as front weight, not implement counterweight.

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Talntedmrgreen
12 hours ago, AC710 said:

So, it looks like the counterweight would act as a  front traction/steering weight if all four pins are in place and the lift rod is disconnected. To be a counterweight only the two rear pins would be used and the lift rod installed, correct?

See this big 'ol arm on the weight?  that is where your lift rod would attach for use as a counterweight.  I was just snapping a few photos to show how its mounted.  i'm not currently countering any implements.  The front 2 pins are removed and then it pivots.  Same function as the earlier FDT weight shown for comparison.

image.png.ffb5f28053f24339d22a9e24f817cfde.png

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AC710
2 hours ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

See this big 'ol arm on the weight?  that is where your lift rod would attach for use as a counterweight. 

Got it dOd.  I  had wondered what those two unused holes were for in the struts between the front and rear pivots on the front axle. Now I see.

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Talntedmrgreen
7 hours ago, AC710 said:

Got it dOd.  I  had wondered what those two unused holes were for in the struts between the front and rear pivots on the front axle. Now I see.

The front weight is the only OEM component I know of that uses those holes.  I do have a very early aftermarket brush mower that mounts there, and have had a couple other aftermarket pieces that use them, but I'm not sure Simplicity intended much to be mounted there.

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AC710
12 hours ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

the Bark-buster

What is a bark buster? I might need one, since the main purpose of this hobby is to get more tractors and implements so you can fix 'em and use 'em once in awhile. I have big trees that keep blowing over and might require bark busting.

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AC710

Aha - I looked up bark buster and found out it is something that zaps your dog if it is too noisy, or a muffler for your dirt bike. LOL.

Actually I had seen these before and wondered how they might work. After trying several types of splitters from mauls to wedges to electric to hydraulic ones with varying results, I'm pretty skeptical.

bark buster.jpg

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