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New life for an already reborn 3415H as an Electric Tractor with a loader


mikeandlina

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mikeandlina

I am new to the forum and wasn't sure my project would be of interest, but after a little searching I ran across some posts about someone else's 3415H.  As soon as I watched the video of JoggerFogger's dad driving his newly resurrected tractor I realized that it and mine were one and the same.  I thought Dad looked familiar, but knew immediately that I PUSHED the tractor up that same path when I bought it - haha.  Mice had gotten into the engine and done some damage and the head gasket ended up having a big leak, so it was not running, but that was OK, I didn't want the engine anyway!  I did repair it just to see if I liked how the tractor operated but sold it shortly after (I have converted all my machines to electric).

Now it is powered by:

  • 16, 200AH LiFePO4 batteries (10 KWh)
  • a 300A 48V Alltrax controller
  • a Advanced DC motor

So this is what it looked like before:

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And here is what it looks like now:

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 Half the battery pack resides in the engine compartment, the other half is counter weight off the back.

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When it didn't fit in my shed, I put it to work making itself a new home.  Between the tiller and the loader it did a pretty good job digging out and flattening the earth for the gravel floor.  It was very useful when reconstructing the intact walls of a heavy, old 10x20 garage I acquired. It now lives in a 'tractor barn' at the end of the garden (under the Douglas Fir where nothing grew anway) :)

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My attempt at a dump trailer didn't really go so well, the dirt just sat there until I drove UP the pile and scraped it out - sigh.  Though it did haul it up from my backyard, this was really pushing the weight limit.

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When I first got it running again, I was having the same problem another user posted about - poor power in reverse.  I guess now that I know the hydro was rebuilt by JoggerFrogger, I am more confident in my solution which was simply to extend the bracket that was restricting the lever from traveling to 100% reverse.  I don't really understand that as a 'design feature'.  I cut the 'stop' off the back and welded on an extension - works great!

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Welcome to the site! Looks like a very interesting conversion. Electric is the future. Did you add the loader or did it come with it? It is highly recommended to tie the loader subframe into the rear of the tractor (usually the sideplates between the gearbox and the transmission) so as to spread out the load and not place excess stress on the bevel gear box. I can't see the loader mounts from the pictures. 

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9 hours ago, Chris727 said:

It is highly recommended to tie the loader subframe into the rear of the tractor (usually the sideplates between the gearbox and the transmission) so as to spread out the load and not place excess stress on the bevel gear box.

I agree with Chris. The older FELs piloted on a bushing at the front axle pivot and replaced the front axle rear pivot crossbar with one with ears to mount angle iron frame rails that extended from that cross bar to brackets that mounted to the side plates between the BGB and transmission. Rear wheel adapters were also required to move the wheels out to clear the frame. You can download the IPLs from Simplicity using 990412 and 990515 as manufacturing numbers to get the idea. I would hate to see you break your tractor in half at the BGB.

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That is a lot of power/battery capacity and the DC would provide a lot of starting torque.  The Lifepo batteries would be quite expensive, but their long life should make them worth it.  Are you using solar charging at all?

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mikeandlina
10 hours ago, Bill725 said:

I agree with Chris. The older FELs piloted on a bushing at the front axle pivot and replaced the front axle rear pivot crossbar with one with ears to mount angle iron frame rails that extended from that cross bar to brackets that mounted to the side plates between the BGB and transmission. Rear wheel adapters were also required to move the wheels out to clear the frame. You can download the IPLs from Simplicity using 990412 and 990515 as manufacturing numbers to get the idea. I would hate to see you break your tractor in half at the BGB.

Chris and Bill,

Thanks for the info.  I guess I see the potential weak spot - the connection between the front and rear of the tractor IS the Bevel Gear Housing side plate.  Those are pretty beefy plates though...  I took a look at the Simplicity FEL mounting bracket drawings and it looks to me like their design is mostly about supporting their weight box.  I don't really see how their bracket does all that much to increase the strength of the connection between the transmission and the front frame.  Aside from a plate in parallel with the BGB side plates, I don't see how that would be accomplished. Those wheel adapters are a nice touch, moving the wheels out a little would definitely give it some better side to side stability in addition to making room for their bracket.  Straight up or down hills this thing is rock sold, sideways on even a mild grade makes this tractor fairly tippy :(

My bracket ties the load entirely to the front frame assembly, however, I suppose my rear battery box mounting frame does some of the job you are suggesting:

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The square tube frame allowed me to cantilever the battery out behind the seat and over the tiller.  It is bolted to the top of the transmission frame AND to the angle bracket at the back of the front frame and so provides some connection between the two.  I suppose I could trim the outside of the rear portion of the foot rest to make room for a welded member extending from the bottom of that battery mount frame to the main crossbar of the loader and bolt it on there for a more solid connection.

I do have an older similar donor tractor with the same rear wheels.  I was thinking about doubling the rear wheels for better traction and to achieve the increased stability the wheel adapters would have provided, but am not quite sold making the tractor wider than it already is...

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3 minutes ago, mikeandlina said:

the connection between the front and rear of the tractor IS the Bevel Gear Housing side plate. 

The connection isn’t the side plate, it’s the cast BGB housing. It’s my understanding that the housing fails. 
 

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mikeandlina
7 hours ago, PGL said:

That is a lot of power/battery capacity and the DC would provide a lot of starting torque.  The Lifepo batteries would be quite expensive, but their long life should make them worth it.  Are you using solar charging at all?

Actually, I acquired the batteries, motor, and controller in one craigslist purchase for $800.  I sold a bunch of the other parts I got in the bundle for at least $200 (plus the repaired engine for another $50), so that really made this an inexpensive conversion.  The Sears FEL cost me $1k, but it is in quite good condition and it was reasonably close by.  I suppose this could have worked with 8 deep cycle lead acid batteries, but that would have been 500 lbs plus a much beefier bracket to hold them compared to the 245 lbs of my pack.  Additionally the space savings is significant.  Two T105 type batteries might have squeezed into the engine compartment, but that would leave 6 to hang off the back of the tractor - ugh.

There is quite a bit of torque.  To be honest though, I really don't pull much more than 180A (about 9kW or 12hp). I think something on the tractor would break (or wear very quickly) with much more than that. I have pulled a heavily dirt laden 4x8 trailer up a steep incline and was definitely running at the edge of what the drive system can handle (won't try to pull that much again). The electronics are not the limiting factor. The motor can handle up to 72 V (and close to 30 kW). The controller is rated for 300A and the batteries are rated for 500A continuous (maximum) discharge.

I have a grid tied solar array on my roof, so there is partial solar charging (our array does not completely offset our usage).  

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mikeandlina
27 minutes ago, PhanDad said:

The connection isn’t the side plate, it’s the cast BGB housing. It’s my understanding that the housing fails. 
 

I had to stop looking at drawings and go out check the tractor - I see now that I misread the 3415H diagram.

Ok, yeah the cast BGB is the only connection and it would be nice to reinforce that.  Actually the diagram 990759 just barely hints at the connection between the BGB and front end and I have never had it stripped down that far so really had no idea what was there (clearly I assumed the bevel hear housing side plate bolted to the front frame).  I can't believe it is just the casting!  Now I see: 4 forward facing bolt holes on the BGB  on page 4 and the little note on page 20 (frame, hood, grill) pointing to a single bolt and lock washer (quantity of 4 specified in the parts list) "hold bevel gear box to frame".  Sigh.

I guess the next time I have it apart I will find a way to extend the loader bracket backwards and connect it to the side plates.

 

 

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11 hours ago, mikeandlina said:

I have never had it stripped down that far so really had no idea what was there

Didn't have pics available when I replied the other day.  A couple of pics:

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mikeandlina
11 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Didn't have pics available when I replied the other day.  A couple of pics:

 

Nice photos :)

It begs the question, WHY was it designed like this?  What was gained?  It seems like it would have been a relatively simple matter to extend the side plates so that they bolted directly on to the front frame taking nearly all the load off the BGB.  Sigh...

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10 hours ago, mikeandlina said:

It begs the question, WHY was it designed like this?

@SmilinSam, @Chris727, or others more knowledgeable about the older “Sovereigns” than I can confirm, the basic designs goes back to the first Simplicity “riding” Tractor, the 700.  The design was “beefy” enough for all attachments at the time.  Loaders were not offered then.  When they were, the sub frame overcame the weakness. 
 

10 hours ago, mikeandlina said:

What was gained?

Simplicity and cost would be my answer. A loader tractor wasn’t a big seller back in the day for a “Sovereign”, so no need to change the basic design. 
 

 

Edited by PhanDad
Phrasing
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I believe when Simplicity designed their first 4-wheel tractor, the Model 700 in the late 1950s, they already had a proven transmission which was used on their 2-wheel drive walk-behind tractors.  The 2-wheel drive tractors used the slip belt clutch design between the engine and the transmission. To make a 4-wheel tractor, they spun the engine 90 degrees, put it out front, ran a drive shaft to a bevel gearbox under the seat which drove the transmission with the same slip belt clutch design.

The BGB tractors are tough tractors. But, IMHO, they are really not designed for the heavy use a FEL can present. I think in the 1960s, Allis Chalmers forced the issue with the FEL in order to compete. You can use a FEL on a BGB tractor for light work, but the keys and keyways in the BGB, transmission and differential are really not for heavy use.

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@mikeandlina

I changed tires today and took a few pictures of the FEL frame. Rear wheel spacers needed for rear tires to clear frame rails.  The (2) holes in the rear of the frame rails are for mounting a weight box, which I do not have mounted. I forgot to take a picture of the attachment at the front axle pivot.

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Edited by Bill725
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The L-12 mounts that way.  The original L-10 had a series of "fingers" the fit into the area below the grill mount.  Just rested on the front of the frame. I can post pics of IPL's or my loader mount if some one wants to see.

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I'm not particularly impressed with the rear end of the Simplicity FEL bracket.  I don't see how it takes much load off the BGB.  I suppose it reduces some of the torsional forces that might occur if one were to rotate the front end compared to the back end, but even then, the brackets are just too far away and have far less stiffness than the cast BGB.  It can't possible be doing much for loads that want to lift the rear wheels.  These are exacerbated by counterweights.  In addition to my rear battery pack, I usually have the tiller on when using the loader, plus I hang my now-unused dozer blade off the back for that little bit of extra stability - probably 300 lbs total.  I am definitely going to weld on extensions to those rear frame side plates and bolt them right on to the narrow waist of the front end.  That will all but eliminate BGB loads and provide a direct, heavy gauge link to the loader frame.

Here are some shots of my bracket, the uprights are mounted almost a foot further back compared to yours. I'm guessing my loader is quite a bit bigger than the Simplicity model.  I do like that my bracket does not interfere with the hood... :)  The rods that keep the uprights vertical, bolt right on to the side of the frame (you can see them in the first picture with the whole tractor and loader in view).  To open the hood you only have to raise the bucket.

Yes that is a leaky pump... and everything is very dirty.  I have been moving yards and yards of gravel, river rock, and dirt over the past few weeks (regrading and retaining wall project with my neighbor).  

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I cut a small notch in the side of the frame so that the main crossbeam cleared the footrest.

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One thing you can see in this picture that might not be obvious from the original description is that this is a FOOT driven tractor.  It is very nice to be able to have such fine control over throttle and at the same time use the hydro lever as a continuously variable transmission.  It makes it very easy to control ground speed and implement speed independently...

 

Edited by mikeandlina
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