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dhoadley

Repowering my small-frame

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dhoadley

I've got 3 (or 4, if you count the pile of parts in the corner) Broadmoors, none of which are in running condition right now. I'm not nearly as magical as many of you are at keeping 50+ year old engines working. I'm thinking I should just get a new engine. Would this budget engine from SEW work? Thanx, Dave

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/LC1P85FA-V-352cc.html

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wwbragg

Given sufficient desire, you can make anything fit.  Vertical drive machines are a lot easier to repower than horizontals.  The only thing you have to worry about is the mounting bolt pattern, pulley alignment, muffler fabrication, and hood clearance - - -oh yea, and belt size.

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/58559-115-pounds-of-potatoes-in-a-7-pound-sack/?tab=comments#comment-469125

This was a Briggs 217807.

Edited by wwbragg
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dhoadley

Pulled the trigger on the budget engine linked in the original post. It arrived yesterday. The electrical connections are a weak point for me. I'm going to need all the help I can get. I'll be putting this into my Broadmoor 728. These are my instructions:

"Wiring is Blue is for fuel solenoid, Black is for kill, reds are for charging system"

Thanx, Dave

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PhanDad
2 hours ago, dhoadley said:

I'm going to need all the help I can get.

Wiring should be easy assuming you have a Briggs with a magneto ignition.  But I think you'll need to add a new wire providing +12v to the fuel shutoff.

What's the MFG# of your Broadmoors?  I'll find the electrical diagram and mark it up for you.  

 

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dhoadley

I don't have the tractor #, I'll be going over shortly and get it while I'm there. The engine that came out was a B&S 191700.

So, this is what they sent me.

DSC02665.JPG.83c1610cb2a12ea3cec066114500bbf0.JPG

One piece of plastic was broken off and I can't find where it came from. Looks completely unimportant.

DSC02668.JPG.f944fcc3aa4934b93f0f231c40476c76.JPG

I don't see a choke lever. Throttle only?

DSC02670.JPG.3cc2155870ad970725ab0322062e7101.JPG

I can't find any blue wires; 2 reds and a black. The nut and stud in the lower right corner are on the starter. Heavy red wire from tractor?

DSC02666.JPG.8026e9dd822c81a9689f94fe5fc4d687.JPG

I've got 2 pulleys to put on and then heading over to dig out the recipient. More photos to follow.

Edited by dhoadley
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PhanDad
37 minutes ago, dhoadley said:

this is what they sent me.

What's the model number.  It'll help figure out what the wires in the connector are for. 

 

42 minutes ago, dhoadley said:

I don't see a choke lever. Throttle only?

In my limited experience, many new engines have a single control cable, when you move it from one stop to the other it goes from idle, to increasing speed, to max speed, then to full choke.

 

45 minutes ago, dhoadley said:

I can't find any blue wires; 2 reds and a black. The nut and stud in the lower right corner are on the starter. Heavy red wire from tractor?

I would think the black would be the mag kill wire.  

Is there any wire that goes to the carb? (usually the bottom)  The blue fuel shutoff wire goes to the carb.  

Two red wires, assuming this engine has an alternator and a solenoid, one red wire would go to each.  But odd that they are both the same color. 

It's best if you trace where each of the 3 wires go.  

As to the nut and stud, the heavy wire would attach there.  The question is does the engine have a solenoid or does it use a tractor mounted solenoid.  Also what your Broadmoor has.  

 

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dhoadley

There is a # engraved on the back of the motor.

1P85FA

T4410018090039058

Husqvarna is mentioned on an emissions sticker by the carb.

 

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dhoadley

Made good headway today. Dug out the 728.

DSC02671.JPG.6de586c2218bd4436d0fc1a1b0f6545b.JPG

After dropping the engine in decided that I would go with one of the 707s. I'm going to be cutting pieces to fit and I have but one 728. I think the older grill gives me more flexibility as well. I have two 707s and one 717. They look completely identical to me. Anyone know the differences?

Engine sitting in 707.

DSC02673.JPG.42e917b1d28f66cb0f6d403d159aa10d.JPG

Had to flip the tank straps to let it sit proper. The bolt holes lined up perfectly with the old engine. No drilling needed. dOd

DSC02674.JPG.fee3d95d78101ac35ef23bdd34c065d5.JPG

The grill support is blocked on the left by the carb. Cut that off and notched the hood for the oil fill/dipstick.

DSC02675.JPG.ff6bf15d828e342745dddd003201806d.JPG

DSC02676.JPG.5043231c154d94a8c97b916f528a141f.JPG

DSC02679.JPG.8214024c7cd5d69f3bc55c41a5188c84.JPG

DSC02677.JPG.7ea052ed84a17c6cc4246046176bc23d.JPG

DSC02678.JPG.ef85da8f6f5f4bb01c42f4d5b646b808.JPG

The exhaust needs to be addressed. Studs are 2" apart and the exhaust port is unthreaded. The grill brace is blocking the way. I'll need to ponder this. Suggestions greatly appreciated.

DSC02680.JPG.a9e16a2c936a4d55dafdc327d0ed1b25.JPG

I attached the grill to the right side to see how it looks.

DSC02681.JPG.23e7b24647d522acd5db85ead1121a4e.JPG

DSC02682.JPG.decf119189ca58f48828dc2cdd0b8eb4.JPG

There are no wires by the carb. The two red wires join quickly to a single red wire going into the engine shroud. The 707s had no foil stickers left, so I have no model # for the 2 that where set up for electric start.

Edited by dhoadley
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PhanDad
32 minutes ago, dhoadley said:

The two red wires join quickly to a single red wire going into the engine shroud.

That matches the wiring diagram I found in the Owner's Manual for a LC1P88F-1, LC1P90F-1, LC1P92F-1: 

image.png.28bdfcb5489aa9374d5808422cfe6c22.png

Looks to be a close match based on the manuals cover:

image.png.e029c461b666735030c3c36bed5dccc0.png

So you have an extra +12v feed wire in the connector and no engine mounted solenoid.

Simple wiring - red wire to charge battery probably via the ignition switch, black wire to old Briggs kill wire, and a heavy red wire to the starter. 

I'm, thinking you don't have a tractor mounted solenoid based on what I think I see in one of your pics above.  Circled in blue in the following pic is what looks to be a heavy duty "push to start" button like I have on my B-110:

707dasha.jpg.c87b8731747cbd68c11d1f6379bc11fd.jpg

If so, the heavy wire from that goes to the starter.  

Sorry that I don't have any info on older small frame tractors on hand.  I'll dig around and see what I can find on the site.  

PS - The Owner's Manual and Part Manual can be downloaded here:

https://www.loncinindustries.com/en/engine/Manual.aspx?catid=8-20-24

 

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dhoadley

Bill, I'm almost keeping up. I have the heavy wire (attach to starter stud) and the kill wire (attach to black wire at connector). Am I running the red wire at the connector to the positive post on the battery? Thanx, Dave

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PhanDad

After digging around in the "Research Section" of the site, I think your tractor is a MFG#99037x.  At the Simplicity Manuals Site I found an operators manual with the following wiring diagram:

image.png.e6043a814703583795da68d073c6884d.png

The heavy wire that goes to the "A" terminal of the S/G goes to the new engine starter stud.

Connect the wire that goes to the "Batt" terminal of the voltage regulator to one of the red wires in the new engine connector. 

I'd then remove the voltage regulator and excess wiring. 

 

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PhanDad
12 minutes ago, dhoadley said:

Am I running the red wire at the connector to the positive post on the battery? Thanx, Dave

See the above.  I've assumed your 707 had a S/G with voltage regulator.  Dash also has an ammeter and key switch for mag kill.  Is this correct?  

No pics above that show the front of dash (or back).  So I'm maybe making too many assumptions.  

Someone on the site must have hands-on wiring knowledge of a Broadmoor 707; hopefully they'll advise.  

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dhoadley

Yes on the S/G. I have an amp meter and a voltage regulator inside the dash tower. It just occurred to me that that is where the red wire would go. I'll be back there tomorrow to cut the grass. I'll take more pix. I'll need to know where exactly to mount the red wire onto the VR. Thanx, Dave 

Edited by dhoadley

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PhanDad
8 minutes ago, dhoadley said:

I'll need to know where exactly to mount the red wire onto the VR.

Voltage regulator no longer needed.  There is a VR included with the engine, it's called a "rectifier voltage" in the engine wiring diagram above.

Run a new wire from red wire in the engine connector to the ammeter terminal circled in red:

707wirea.jpg.3bde77d0806b5fcff8b81b786c7eb21e.jpg

 

 

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dhoadley

So here are some pictures of both sides of the dash.

DSC02683.JPG.818cb1382b8a4442054cc5aa2a4da1c3.JPG

The key switch has no wire attached, one connection only.

DSC02684.JPG.aeaf81be75ff6fc56b581123625b0a8e.JPG

DSC02685.JPG.8621fe39cabd6e8bd7a067e1e7c1dd0a.JPG

DSC02686.JPG.d75396aed99a0fcb73535550d70f21f3.JPG

I have this electronic-ee looking thing next to the starter with 2 yellow wirescoming out of it and going under the shroud. (or maybe into the starter)

DSC02687.JPG.be82cdb15286458fb17c5262afc7babc.JPG

I got the grill modified to the point where its stable and looks good. (if I do say so myself).

DSC02690.JPG.36d536269f2682ed6658ba127536b070.JPG

DSC02691.JPG.2e93173bff82e8dd27239e99e1da73ff.JPG

I used a scrap piece of aluminium angle to anchor the bottom left of the grill. The front left corner of the hood will remain unattached. Time will tell if this will hold up.

 

Edited by dhoadley
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PhanDad
1 hour ago, dhoadley said:

I have this electronic-ee looking thing next to the starter with 2 yellow wirescoming out of it and going under the shroud. 

That’s the “rectifier voltage”.  The yellow wires bring AC to it.  

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PhanDad
2 hours ago, dhoadley said:

The key switch has no wire attached, one connection only.

DSC02684.JPG.aeaf81be75ff6fc56b581123625b0a8e.JPG

Since the current wiring doesn't use the key switch to ground the old Briggs magneto, what did?  Hopefully you labeled the wire that went to the Briggs mag.  You'll have to follow it backwards and see what it's connected to.  It might be the center terminals of the push button switch??? But I don't understand how that would work unless it's a twist push button of some type.  

 

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dhoadley

I think I've never had this tractor running. It looks like I need to run a wire from the key switch to the black wire on the engine connector, the amp meter wire to the red wire on the connector, and the wire from the push button to the starter stud. Do I have that right? Right now there are only 2 wires leaving the dash tower; one from the starter button and one from the amp meter. I don't think I have any other loose wires. I'll double and triple check before I hook up the battery next weekend. Thank you, Bill, for your time and thought in helping me through the process.

Edited by dhoadley
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dhoadley

I'm pondering the exhaust. The studs are 2" apart. I'm looking for an exhaust stub for pipe fitting size. 2 45* pieces and I can get around grill support. Something like this but this appears to be too small.

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/briggs-stratton/690776

Thoughts? Thanx, Dave

Edited by dhoadley

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dhoadley
dhoadley
On 10/17/2020 at 8:16 PM, PhanDad said:

After digging around in the "Research Section" of the site, I think your tractor is a MFG#99037x.  At the Simplicity Manuals Site I found an operators manual with the following wiring diagram:

image.png.e6043a814703583795da68d073c6884d.png

The heavy wire that goes to the "A" terminal of the S/G goes to the new engine starter stud.

 

I mapped out where the wires go that I have in the tower now. They match very well with above.

DSC02692.JPG.8e9408a44bb5f1ead57a836e7310d6f4.JPG

I wonder if the reason there's no wire on the key switch is that the key switch is broken. How would I test the switch? Infinite resistance when on, zero resistance when off at the tab? Thanx, Dave

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PhanDad
3 hours ago, dhoadley said:

How would I test the switch? Infinite resistance when on, zero resistance when off at the tab?

Correct.  Make sure the switch base is making good contact with the dash (and also the dash to the frame as well as battery cable to frame).  

Was the engine gone when you got the tractor?  Maybe the PO just took the kill wire of at the switch when the engine was removed.  

 

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dhoadley
7 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Was the engine gone when you got the tractor?  Maybe the PO just took the kill wire of at the switch when the engine was removed.  

 

The engine is in pieces in my basement along with 2 others. "I'll make 2 good ones out of the 3." Seemed like a plan at the time. Another unfinished project. They've been there for years. I'll just test the switch and move forward. I have others if that one is bad.

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