My Allis 716 hydro Blew

[allislover716]

My old allis 716 hydro seized up when we were mowing and then sat for 10 years. What engines could replace the Kohler K341?

 

[PhanDad]

Easiest would be another single cylinder cast iron Kohler.

Next would be a single cylinder cast iron Briggs (ignition switch change required).

Do a search on the site for "repower" and you'll find lots of ideas.  

 

[ShaunE]

1 hour ago, allislover716 said:

My old allis 716 hydro seized up when we were mowing and then sat for 10 years. What engines could replace the Kohler K341?

I agree with @PhanDad.  Another K-Series Kohler would be the easiest.  Hang on the the sump/oil pan.  Cub, Deere, Wheel Horse & Case all used K-Series Kohler engines but the sump/oil pan is different on some of those.  The crankshaft diameter may be different as well on some of those.  This may only matter IF you were using the front PTO.  

Have you investigated the existing engine for rebuild?  Although it may be pricey, at least you'll know what you have when you are through.  A reputable engine machine shop can usually make these as good as new depending on how far out the bore & crank journal is.

[allislover716]

@ShaunE I have looked at it and the k341 and it has been rebuilt once and seized when I was mowing. Are there any newer engine replacements?

[maxwood]

Hello, A 22hp predator engine from Harbor freight   is a newer ,but is also $750  and needs some special parts.

a Predator 13 hp is also an option

search the site for (repower)

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gasoline-engines/13-hp-420cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-epacarb-69736.html

Thanks Ken in Mi

Edited December 28, 2020 by maxwood

[PhanDad]

FYI - many repower posts you may find on the site are for the newer "7100" series tractors (AC900's) which have the frames cut for the twins.  

I believe you would have to cut the frame of your tractor to install a twin; opposed for sure, maybe for a V-twin.  Hopefully someone will confirm. 

 

[allislover716]

Has anybody tried the 18hp vanguard says it will work

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/Repower-Old-Equipment/Allis-Chalmers-716-Category/

[colincox1]

I put one into 7117 a few years back all running good, I did  post on the process.  I wo see if I can find it. It was on the older site . 

[PhanDad]

3 minutes ago, colincox1 said:

I wo see if I can find it. It was on the older site .

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/35726-repowering-a-7117-one-solution/

And @Tom45 did one also:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/34122-briggs-vanguard-in-7117/

 

[colincox1]

THANK YOU, I MUST SAVE THAT SOMEWHERE.  COLIN

[allislover716]

@PhanDad Thanks man its helpful I was looking at that engine but just wasn't sure 

 

[colincox1]

Phandad , thanks very much.

Allislover, I found it a simple, for me, repower. As i remember it, the issues are: height of engine, 

Connection for power to transmission, either end of the shaft that goes from the back of the engine to the front of the transmission (for hydraulics and drive) b&s to kholer adapter on engine  to shaft and universal joint to from shaft to transmission. 

Small cut out of frame to make room for oil filter

Finally fitting a muffler 

If you want to discuss some time  of more information send personal message 

Best Regards Colin 

[Bill725]

I believe the K341 has the same crankshaft height as the Command at 6.125" and the Vanguard has the same height as the Triad at 5.25", making a difference of 0.875".

I think the easiest way to raise the motor is to use the Triad engine mounting plate. Last I knew @ShaunEhad some for sale. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Bill725

[allislover716]

Does anyone know where to get a new Kohler k341 or a Kohler M16 engine 

[allislover716]

would some sort of Kohler Command work

 

[Bill725]

The AC 716 is the same as the Simplicity 7000 series which were powered with a single cylinder Kohler or B&S. The AC 900 and Simplicity 7100, GTH and late model Sovereign series frames were extended out the front to accommodate the opposed Kohler twins.

I would think if a Vanguard fits into the older 700/7000 series frames, a Command would also fit. Three issues with engine fitment are hood clearance, driveshaft connection and exhaust clearance. The Command uses flywheel adapter P/N 24 029 09-S for the driveshaft connection. See attached Command dimensions for fitment, which does not show the flywheel adapter. FYI, the Simplicity OEM muffler/ P/N 1686656SM is now $590!

Edited December 30, 2020 by Bill725

[GregB]

That muffler price about pays for a Predator engine.............

Not sure about the length in a 700/7000 series frame though.

[maxwood]

Hello, years ago 2012 I repowered a 7100 sovereign with a brggs 16 HP vanguard engine .

It came with no muffler so I built my own. here is the thread to that build.

Thanks Ken in Mi

 

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/40081-how-to-build-a-muffler-for-a-briggs-vanguard/

 

 

[PGL]

Maxwood, a good looking muffler, is it still going strong?

[maxwood]

Hello, It is still going strong . I think the 4 inch exhaust pipe I used is thicker than what OEM mufflers are made of!

I made one for the 22HP predator engine Too.

[Bill725]

Here is a B&S CI 16HP drawing for reference. Should be about the same as a Kohler K341. 

[Brettw]

On 12/28/2020 at 3:51 PM, allislover716 said:

Does anyone know where to get a new Kohler k341 or a Kohler M16 engine 

I believe both are long since retired.  I am in the process of rebuilding a K321.  Have most of the parts, complete ignition, new carb, etc., but will be boring it .010 over to do it properly.  Came out of a 7114. Hope to have it completed by this spring, when I drive from SE WI to western KY for the annual golf trip.  Kinda right on the way through Bartelso................. just sayin'...........

[PhanDad]

On 12/28/2020 at 5:14 PM, allislover716 said:

would some sort of Kohler Command work

 

Based on the tight fit of the muffler on a Command in a 7100 series tractor, I figure it would be worse in a 7000 series tractor.  I remember Al didn't sell a Command repower for the 7000 series tractor, but thought he discussed a Command in a 7000 tractor.  It took me a while, but I found his comment:

Hi, Be forwarned, the Kohler V twins do not fit in the 7000, 700 AC or 3400 Simplicity units. I have a customer that bought an CH engine before he checked into this. The tractor has to be really buchered to even get it in. The frame requires cuts so bad it will require reinforcements. I hadn't seen the tractor since early this Summer. He brought it up Saturday and There is no room for mufflers. I think he will make a plate to bolt on the front of the engine to suppport the pipes and cut 2 large holes in the hood and put 2 mufflers straight up and revise the hood to lift on and off like a drag car. I have spent a lot of time with Kohler applications, because my Kohler rep is the person that originally got us involved in the repower business and as much as possible I dance with the one that brung me to the dance. If it was feasible, I would have went that way. We have repowered a number of these tractors and have sold some kits to do so. Presently we do not sell a kit to do so, but [based on the calls we have received] may revive the kit if I can resolve the muffler issue in a manner that lends itself to a volume run. If you want to see a couple of this family tractors repowered, check our web site. repowereng.com Al Eden

The above is from this post:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/11479-engines-and-spec-numbers-in-70007100-ac-700900/

RIP Al. 

 

[PhanDad]

On 12/28/2020 at 4:51 PM, allislover716 said:

Does anyone know where to get a new Kohler k341

Closest I've seen is a K241 10HP short block:

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/4752235.html?sc=17&category=1710182

 

[ShaunE]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 1:51 PM, allislover716 said:

Has anybody tried the 18hp vanguard says it will work

There was a gentleman from Marshall WI that was repowering both 7000 & 7100 Series tractors with 16 & 18 HP Vanguards in the mid 90's.  He passed away in the early 2000's.  They will fit without cutting the side frames as they are they have the same crank height as the Kohler Triad thus requiring a similar riser plate like was used on all the Triad powered Sovereigns.  He would then make new wiring harnesses & single pepper pot mufflers for each cylinder down & out the front.

There are a couple of us on this site that knew him & saw his work back then.  I'm sure there is still a tractor or two floating around South Central WI that were repowered by him.

Edited December 30, 2020 by ShaunE