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Horvik

3416 H Dash Light Help

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Horvik

Hello;

 

I swapped the older 16 HP Briggs Gen/Starter to the newer Briggs that has the 10 AMP single wire charging.  I want to get the original dash GEN light working...but do not quite know how. Any help is appreciated.

 

All the best

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PhanDad

I'd like @BLT to confirm, but I don't think you can make the GEN light work without the mechanical voltage regulator. 

Here's the wiring diagram @Bill725 was referring to:  

image.png.a281ecf390a8d7671fb9c38e7e693b98.png

The GEN light is wired between the battery voltage (supplied via the ignition switch) and "G" terminal of the voltage regulator with a diode in the circuit.  The diode prevents current flow from the "G" terminal back to the battery.  When the ignition switch is on and the engine not running, current flows from the battery through the light to the "G" terminal; the light is brightly lit.  When the engine is running and the S/G charging, the "G" voltage is equal to or higher than the battery voltage (the diode stops the reverse current), so no current flows through the light; the light is not lit.  At idle, when the S/G isn't producing much voltage, some current flows from the battery through the light to the "G"; the light is dimly lit and/or flickers. 

You no longer have a "G" terminal available, so you can't use the light anymore.  

The 3416H I had didn't have the GEN light, but an ammeter.  Your 3416H must be an earlier version.  You could get a newer dash plate with ammeter to show charging status.  

 

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PhanDad
7 minutes ago, BLT said:

Can't help you .

@Burntime's wiring genius can't help?? 

Bob, the guru with all the wiring improvements such as wiring the points into a "MegaFire" electronic ignition module install or the "Bosch" relay wiring tricks.  

Must be another 2020 anomaly.  

Here's to wishing Bob and everyone else a great 2021.  

 

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Horvik
9 hours ago, PhanDad said:

I'd like @BLT to confirm, but I don't think you can make the GEN light work without the mechanical voltage regulator. 

Here's the wiring diagram @Bill725 was referring to:  

image.png.a281ecf390a8d7671fb9c38e7e693b98.png

The GEN light is wired between the battery voltage (supplied via the ignition switch) and "G" terminal of the voltage regulator with a diode in the circuit.  The diode prevents current flow from the "G" terminal back to the battery.  When the ignition switch is on and the engine not running, current flows from the battery through the light to the "G" terminal; the light is brightly lit.  When the engine is running and the S/G charging, the "G" voltage is equal to or higher than the battery voltage (the diode stops the reverse current), so no current flows through the light; the light is not lit.  At idle, when the S/G isn't producing much voltage, some current flows from the battery through the light to the "G"; the light is dimly lit and/or flickers. 

You no longer have a "G" terminal available, so you can't use the light anymore.  

The 3416H I had didn't have the GEN light, but an ammeter.  Your 3416H must be an earlier version.  You could get a newer dash plate with ammeter to show charging status.  

 

Phandad;

 

Thanks for the response, can you tell me how to best hookup the ammeter I plan on acquiring?

 

All t he best

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Brettw

I have a few spare ammeters around here I could send your way, and you should be able to drill the dash panel with a hole saw in place of the Gen light.  I would think there is a bit more to it other than just swapping these out though?

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PhanDad
14 hours ago, Horvik said:

can you tell me how to best hookup the ammeter I plan on acquiring?

The ammeter is usually between the circuit breaker (fuse shown) and ignition switch as shown in this schematic:  

image.png.27769997261d70c3fd343814587b946c.png

Note the both the +12v feed to the ignition switch and the charging circuit wire are on the same "side" of the ammeter.  In this arrangement, the ammeter shows the battery current flow in non starting conditions.  Note that current used by accessories are fed first from the charge circuit before pulling current from the battery; the ammeter doesn't show this current flow.  

Exactly where to install the ammeter in your case would depend on how you wired the new engine into the OEM wiring system. 

If you connected the single charging wire from the new engine to the "B" terminal of the , you would want the ammeter installed where the "blue blob" is shown:

5fef5af3e23e6_WiringDiagramAmmeterInstall.JPG.c9105542b4f51ea37f2ebc7614d631c1.JPG

Note this would require "moving" the circuit breaker as shown by the red arrow to match OEM placement. 

If you connected the charging wire directly to the ignition switch, then you could install the ammeter where the "green blob" is shown.  

 

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BLT

Did you ever consider using a voltmeter ? It tells you more other than a an ammeter that tells you only which the amps are flowing and nothing about battery condition.

 

 

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Bill725
15 hours ago, BLT said:

Did you ever consider using a voltmeter ?

Great idea Bob. On my (2) Sovereigns, I replaced the ammeter with an oil temperature gauge and hooked a Battery Tender cable to the battery and use their pocket LCD voltage indicator.

Sov Oil Temp Ga.jpg

BattTender Volt Ind.jpg

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OrangeMetalGuy
On 1/1/2021 at 5:14 PM, BLT said:

Did you ever consider using a voltmeter ? It tells you more other than a an ammeter that tells you only which the amps are flowing and nothing about battery condition.

X2 on the voltmeter.  It's the better indicator of your battery and charging system.

I swapped my ammeter for a voltmeter years ago when I started experiencing poor connections and hence poor charging.  Just a note the wiring is different than for the ammeter.

On 1/1/2021 at 5:14 PM, BLT said:

 

 

 

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Rfp55

I am a 3410 owner

Gen light didn't work

I am an Electrical Engineer, Power emphasis; but that doesn't matter.

The bulb was burned out - soak the back of it well with PB Blaster or favorite juice. Push bulb and socket towards each other and rotate assembly in opposite directions ( with gloves) a quarter turn to release bayonet lugs on bulb base. It isn't real obvious how to change those instrument bulbs by looking at old dirty rusty parts.

It can be very stuck, but if the voltmeter says you're charging at 12.8 - 14.8 V when running or if cut or disconnect wire to charge light and read it as an open circuit ( proving bulb shot) you can smash the bulb and use needle nose pliers to get old parts separated and out.

One useful but underappreciated function of the Gen light is it lights up when the ignition switch is turned on - like when you swing your leg over or drag your foot through getting off the tractor and turn the switch on unintentionally.

Edited by Rfp55
Added some.

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Horvik
On 1/1/2021 at 11:26 AM, PhanDad said:

The ammeter is usually between the circuit breaker (fuse shown) and ignition switch as shown in this schematic:  

image.png.27769997261d70c3fd343814587b946c.png

Note the both the +12v feed to the ignition switch and the charging circuit wire are on the same "side" of the ammeter.  In this arrangement, the ammeter shows the battery current flow in non starting conditions.  Note that current used by accessories are fed first from the charge circuit before pulling current from the battery; the ammeter doesn't show this current flow.  

Exactly where to install the ammeter in your case would depend on how you wired the new engine into the OEM wiring system. 

If you connected the single charging wire from the new engine to the "B" terminal of the , you would want the ammeter installed where the "blue blob" is shown:

5fef5af3e23e6_WiringDiagramAmmeterInstall.JPG.c9105542b4f51ea37f2ebc7614d631c1.JPG

Note this would require "moving" the circuit breaker as shown by the red arrow to match OEM placement. 

If you connected the charging wire directly to the ignition switch, then you could install the ammeter where the "green blob" is shown.  

 

Hi Phandad;

 

I did the circuit hookup as in your first schematic. On the separate voltmeter I get 12.4- 12.6 Volts . On the Ammeter, it shows a slight discharge to the first small mark. Battery is brand new and tested 22NF. Sounds like I have to switch the wires. yes they are hooked up exactly as in the drawing.

 

All the best

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PhanDad
4 hours ago, Horvik said:

I did the circuit hookup as in your first schematic. On the separate voltmeter I get 12.4- 12.6 Volts . On the Ammeter, it shows a slight discharge to the first small mark. Battery is brand new and tested 22NF. Sounds like I have to switch the wires. yes they are hooked up exactly as in the drawing.

The 12.4 to 12.6 volts is what a good charged battery should read.  When charging, the voltage should be about 13.5 to 14.5.

If your reading is when the engine isn't running, with the key "on" you can get a slight negative ammeter reading due to some parasitic drain.  If the engine is running (say mid throttle and up), you should get a higher voltage reading if engine charging system is working.  

  

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Horvik

PhanDad...

 

That's a problem i am working on as when the engine is running the Ammeter goes discharge one mark to the left, just a bit. One the independent voltmeter it shows it hardly moving if at all. I have the 10 AMP dual lead Briggs charging system, and when I take it's charging lead off then I had higher voltage. have to check that again I suppose.

 

Thanks

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