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720nut

Powermax #'s , need help

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720nut

Ok guys I need help here as I've never really worried about serial #'s

Simplicity  1690283  /  1316

Allis 620  only 2 #'s showing,   30

Parts tractor,  954002002  , has 1973 Simplicity Manufacturing co on tag just under #

I'm sure it's not much to go by but I don't have a clue where to start

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PhanDad

From the Cross Reference Chart:

SIMPLICITY

ALLIS CHALMERS,DEUTZ-ALLIS & AGCO ALLIS 

PRODUCT NO.

MODEL

YEAR

PRODUCT NO.

MODEL

DESCRIPTION

990953

4041

1974, 1975

1600303

620

19.5HP Ind/Ag Tractor

990954

4041

1974, 1975

1600304

620

19.5HP Ind/Ag Tractor w/Rear PTO

1690072

9020

1976

1690073

720

19.5HP Hydro Ind/Ag Tractor

1690230

9020

1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981

1690231

720

19.5 HP Hydro Ind/Ag Tractor

1690283

9020

1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981

1690288

720

19.5 HP Hydro Ind/Ag Tractor W/PTO

Not sure if there are others; I scanned the tables and the above are all I found.

Your parts tractor is a MFG# 990954 Serial #2002

For your 620, I'm guessing it is a MFG# 1600303 or 304.  If it originally had a Rear PTO, then it would be a 304.

Hopefully  others can confirm. 

 

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720nut

Thanks Bill , #'s are really hard to read there's not much left of the 620 tag, are more #'s but hard to read, 620 does have 3pt and pto.

1690283 is what I had maybe thought as a 9020 has heavy front axle

So what would the parts tractor be , as I only have the rolling chassis, I did however get a really nice set of Powermax fenders in the deal

 

Edited by 720nut

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ShaunE
1 hour ago, 720nut said:

So what would the parts tractor be , as I only have the rolling chassis

Sounds like a 4041 based on the chart.  @mnoonan42 has a chart with all the Simplicity, Allis & Wards P-Max tractor numbers & years of MFG.

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midnightpumpkin
9 hours ago, 720nut said:

Thanks Bill , #'s are really hard to read there's not much left of the 620 tag, are more #'s but hard to read

1690283 is what I had maybe thought as a 9020 has heavy front axle

So what would the parts tractor be , as I only have the rolling chassis, I did however get a really nice set of Powermax fenders in the deal

 

Lloyd, I have two engines and a bunch of other Onan parts for sale in the classifieds. One of the engines is from your parts tractor. Not sure why you are researching serial numbers, I can give you the numbers off of the engine, if you are just trying to date it. The parts tractor was a 4041, that I can tell you for sure.

BTW all 9020's did not have the heavy front axle.

John U

Edited by midnightpumpkin

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720nut

Just trying to see what I really have , other than resell someday #'s really mean nothing to me.

John sent you a PM

John think we're both mixed up here , parts tractor I got off of you was sold years back to Tom Adams in Ohio, this one came from New Stanton Pa.

 

Edited by 720nut

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Talntedmrgreen
6 hours ago, midnightpumpkin said:

BTW all 9020's did not have the heavy front axle.

John U

John @midnightpumpkin, on the late 9020/720 with the 'heavy front axle', was there actually anything different about the axles, or was the difference purely in the spindle?  Seems to me the axles crack regardless of the eary vs late designs, and at a spotthat has nothing to do with the spindle.  It always seemed odd to me that the Pmax community have adopted the 'axle' as the HD part, when I have only seen the improvement made to the spindle.  I have never had both axles in my hands to compare.

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Talntedmrgreen

Lloyd, the parts tractor is a RPTO 4041.  All 4041's had the '1973' tag, and I feel like maybe the 4040's may have also.  The serial # you have, 954002002, is translated to mfg# 990954, serial #2002 (1002nd tractor built).

What is really interesting to me on the 4041/4040 thing, is that the 4040 was the first Pmax model, introduced in 1973.  However, there are photos in the 4040 introduction literature that clearly show a 4041.  Maybe that literature was late in the 4040's life?  However, these were 'new model' intro pieces, and this literature would have presumably been photographed before the 4040 was avaialble for sale, 2+ years before the intro of the 4041.  I actually got my hands on an original press photo of one of the images they used in the brochures, and it is crystal clear, and very much a 4041.  The dating on the photo, if I recall without digging it out, was May '72.  So, Simplicity seems to have had a path laid out for the Powermax before ever selling one.  They had the dual hydro, LH aux hydraulic port, 4041 decal design, parking brake change etc all designed and built (at least as prototype), but yet reverted to the 'early' features of a 4040 for the first model released.  

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ShaunE
3 hours ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

John @midnightpumpkin, on the late 9020/720 with the 'heavy front axle', was there actually anything different about the axles, or was the difference purely in the spindle?  Seems to me the axles crack regardless of the eary vs late designs, and at a spotthat has nothing to do with the spindle.  It always seemed odd to me that the Pmax community have adopted the 'axle' as the HD part, when I have only seen the improvement made to the spindle.  I have never had both axles in my hands to compare.

Correct.

I had two of them side by side when I upgraded my early 720 with a standard front axle to the later "heavy front axle".

The only difference I found was the diameter of the vertical aspect of the spindles which I call the "Kingpin" with the heavy castings above them.  The spindle diameter is the same as they all take the same wheel bearings & seals.  EXCEPT on a few early 4040/616 tractors that used two different size wheel bearings due to a spindle with a shoulder.  These are usually noticeable by the hubs using wheel bolts rather than wheel studs.

Even the axle tubing wall thickness is the same between axles.

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720nut

I have both axles and here are left sides, first is so called heavy on 9020 and second is on my parts tractor.

I will be removing axle from parts tractor and will tear them apart to compare, I'll post pics here of any difference I find 

DSCN4015.JPG

DSCN4016.JPG

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720nut

What decals would ya use on the 9020, standard or the System 9020 ones ?

Also is hood a white or off white, mines orange , just not to familiar with the Simplicity side of these tractors and now that it runs and moves would like to spruce it up

 

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