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Alltractoredup

Sovereign CH18 interlock module help

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Alltractoredup

I'm having starting issues with my Sovereign 18 with CH18.   I have traced it to being the interlock module.  Does anybody know how to wire tractor correctly without an interlock?

According to wiring diagram, my uncertainty is the white wire coming from key ignition "M" into module and red/blue wire coming from "L" on key ignition.  The safety wiring I can get wired correctly.  

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

16115348368255919619349344497592.jpg

16115348849882480241247801457221.jpg

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maxwood

Hello, I have had a bunch of sovereigns over the years .

On more than one of them the 5 prong connector going to the ignition switch has some corrosion on it .

These tractors are over 20 yrs old and it is possible that these connections  may need cleaning .A small wire brush works well .

I hope this helps .

 

Thanks Ken in Mi

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PhanDad
22 hours ago, Alltractoredup said:

Does anybody know how to wire tractor correctly without an interlock?

I think I can help.  So we're on the same page, here's marked up diagram wiring for a Sovereign with Command engine (the diagram you show is for a Triad, but I believe the interlock logic is the same. But surprisingly the "engine mag kill" wire colors are different (Or a misprint - Red/Black for the Command; White for the Triad):

Command_Interlock_Wire.JPG.c621a0ea2a4ec6d948c02e69de61c800.JPG

Color Key:

Red                -    "Run" Position +12V

Dashed Red -    "Start" Position +12V

Blue               -    PTO and Trans Safeties Info (for "Crank" circuit I believe)

Green            -   Seat Safety Info (for both "Crank" and "Operator Present" circuits I believe)

Yellow         -    PTO and Trans Safeties Info (for "Operator Present" circuit I believe)

Orange         -   "Crank" +12V

Purple          -   Magneto "Kill" circuit

Black           -   Ground (Not hi-lighted - NOT bold "Cranking Circuit" wiring)

 

Detailed wiring at Interlock Module:

Command_Interlock_Wire_Local.JPG.c47052421cccd84cf29b3d1343129da9.JPG

22 hours ago, Alltractoredup said:

my uncertainty is the white wire coming from key ignition "M" into module and red/blue wire coming from "L" on key ignition.

The white wire is to kill the engine if either of the PTO or Trans safeties are not "safe" with no operator present.

The red/blue wire powers the interlock module.

 

As to wiring the tractor with out the Interlock Module, here are two possibilities.  Note the engine will not shutdown except via the key switch.   

If you want the 3 safeties (PTO, Trans, Seat) in the crank circuit connect the single green wire terminal to the black wire terminal:

600f0557c748f_Command_Interlock_Wire_LocalNoModule1.JPG.33240829299fa74ae7ac736fbc507115.JPG 

If wired as above, the tractor will fail Tests 3 & 4 of the  "Safety Interlock System" tests shown below.   

 

If you don't want the Seat Safety  in the crank circuit, connect the dual wire (green and blue) terminal to the black wire terminal:  

600f05591128b_Command_Interlock_Wire_LocalNoModule2.JPG.8e6281c923274c9ae6e8a0930d6f3af5.JPG

If wired as above, the tractor will fail all 4 of the  "Safety Interlock System" Tests shown below.   (It fails Test 1&2 because the seat safety (A) isn't in the circuit) 

 

600f080fcda4b_Sov18InterlockOp.thumb.JPG.91b60c2e7df491bd2ebccc0f5e20b0d4.JPG

If you do any of these wiring mods, please let me know if they work as I think they should.  Thanks in advance.  

PS - I found these pics of what the harness end of the interlock module looks like:  

pic6.thumb.jpg.849167e0403c2c69436187b7d59fe663.jpg

pic2a.jpg.7492558394d61a7b773ae3a26dc9cc05.jpg

Note it has the black wire loop as shown in the Command wiring diagram above between the "green" highlighted wire (seat safety info) and black wire (ground). 

Assuming you don't want to save the "interlock module" and you want to go with the first option above,  you could cut all 5 wires that run between the harness connector and interlock module.  Tape them up individually so they don't touch anything.  Another option would be to remove all the harness connector pins except the two black ones and cut the black wire to the interlock module.  I'd tape the cut black wire even though it's ground (I don't like unconnected uninsulated wires hanging around).  

If it were me, I'd remove the yellow and brown (wire color, not highlighted color) wire harness pins since they're of no use IMO.    I'd leave the others since they could be used at some time in the future.  Having "ready made" switched +12V feed, magneto kill, and a good ground connection available is a good thing.  

If you want to use the second option above (no seat safety) you can do the above except you'd have to move the harness pin connector that connects to the single green highlighted connector hole to the two wire (green and blue highlighted) connector hole.  

 

Edited by PhanDad
Add PS section
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CarlH

Help me PhanDad!

Your Cranking Circuit diagram comes from a different (newer?) document than the one that AllTractoredUp and I are looking at. Ours could be for an OHC Kohler (fewer Mfg #'s could indicate OHC perhaps) but too many wires are going to the starter for a Triad and no Safety Interlock Cranking Circuit stuff.

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PhanDad
35 minutes ago, CarlH said:

Your Cranking Circuit diagram comes from a different (newer?) document than the one that AllTractoredUp and I are looking at.

It comes from the 1997 Electrical Information Manual, Page 12.  In this manual there are 4 wiring diagrams with various "circuits" bolded. 

The diagram I used is for the Command Engine.  Telling feature is the main heavy gauge wire from the "+" battery post direct to Command "starter" and the light gauge wire from the dash mounted solenoid to the Command engine mounted solenoid.  The +12V feed to the circuit breaker comes from a pig tail lead attached directly to the main "+" cable battery connector.   

@Alltractoredup diagram is for an OHC Triad.  Telling feature is typical 7100 Series battery wiring - main heavy gauge wire from battery "+" post to dash mounted solenoid ("load" side) and a heavy gauge wire from the other solenoid "load" terminal to the Triad starter (no starter mounted solenoid).  The +12V feed to the circuit breaker comes from the dash mounted solenoid Battery side "load" terminal.      

1 hour ago, CarlH said:

too many wires are going to the starter for a Triad

Both the Command and Triad diagrams at the engine starter are identical.  The Command starter mounted solenoid is not shown in the Simplicity diagram.  

Some reference pics:

Triad starter:

IMG_9010a.JPG.c1fca8d420d694b799ffbbdf6257990a.JPG

Triad dash solenoid wiring:

IMG_7632a.thumb.JPG.d6f49817bff714ebce75b10fdc023581.JPG

 

Command starter:   

IMG_7702b.thumb.JPG.cd34f41ea87527a148e7924c80b4c488.JPG

(Main cable not connected, attaches to top most terminal)

Command "+" 12V battery connector with pigtail lead: IMG_4803a.jpg.09ac2ad36d83ccbaa55fd1545b409c4d.jpg

(Note wiring isn't OEM Command, it's adapted Triad wiring)

 

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Alltractoredup
21 hours ago, maxwood said:

Hello, I have had a bunch of sovereigns over the years .

On more than one of them the 5 prong connector going to the ignition switch has some corrosion on it .

These tractors are over 20 yrs old and it is possible that these connections  may need cleaning .A small wire brush works well .

I hope this helps .

 

Thanks Ken in Mi

Ignition switch is brand new out of box and cleaned connection, unfortunately still no starting

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Alltractoredup

Well, I was able to stumble on an extra interlock module in my parts bin I had no idea I had.  I plugged it in and it worked!!  Thank you all who offered your valuable knowledge, it is appreciated.

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