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JFSJR

Please help. 3a unreg to 15a mishap

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JFSJR

Hello everyone new guy here,

Long story short, my K301 blew a rod after 40 years of dedicated service. I decided now was a good time to upgrade to a K321. I found a donor tractor (7114) (1982 or 1981?) and rebuilt the engine to swap onto my 7012H (1978)(1690352).

Im no expert but I have learned a couple of thing in my 50 years to be almost dangerous. The first thing I noticed was my K301 had a different stator in it.I believe it is the 3amp unregulated version. I decided I would get cute and just leave the stator in the K321 alone since it looked like it would give more electrical power. I did not use the flywheel from the K301 or the Stator however I did have to change the stator plug from the K301 to the K321 in order to hook it up to the tractor.

At the time, I didnt know the difference in charging systems.  I started the tractor it ran well but within a few seconds or so it blew the headlights. I turned the tractor off after a few minutes not fully realizing what was happening. Thats when I realized the K321 was using a voltage regulator and the K301 does not. this would explainthe headlights blowing out and Im surprised I didnt blow the coil out by running it that long.

I really dont want to tear the engine apart again. So my question is:

What all do I need to do to make this work on my 7012H? I thought just swapping the plug would of been good but I was wrong obviously.  Im not a fan of chopping up wire harnesses etc so if this can be done as a clean conversion im all ears.

I still have the (7114) parts tractor and it ran before I began the rebuild. The only thing I cannot use off of the 7114 is the rear axle Assy as it is completely shattered. Everything else is good to use.

I appreciate any help here guys. I did try to search for my answer but I could not find a good enough explanation (laymens terms) on how to do this "conversion?"

 

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MikeES

All you have to do is:  there should be a power board on the right inside of the cowling next to the key switch.   Install a new wire from one of the open tabs on the board to the input side of your light switch, the wiring from the plug to switch should be removed or covered so it does not ground out.  The wiring from the switch to the lights can remain, just put in new bulbs.

If you do not have the power board, you will need to tap into the hot wire when the key switch is on (like the wire going to the coil) and feed that to the light switch as described above.

Now you will be feeding your lights through the battery and not directly from the charging system.  If done correctly you should be able to turn your lights on with the key switch on and the motor not running.

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JFSJR
2 hours ago, MikeES said:

All you have to do is:  there should be a power board on the right inside of the cowling next to the key switch.   Install a new wire from one of the open tabs on the board to the input side of your light switch, the wiring from the plug to switch should be removed or covered so it does not ground out.  The wiring from the switch to the lights can remain, just put in new bulbs.

If you do not have the power board, you will need to tap into the hot wire when the key switch is on (like the wire going to the coil) and feed that to the light switch as described above.

Now you will be feeding your lights through the battery and not directly from the charging system.  If done correctly you should be able to turn your lights on with the key switch on and the motor not running.

Ok. Am I in any danger of damaging other electrical things on the tractor such as coil, ignition switch etc since its basically unregulated? Keep in mind I did not put the voltage regulator from the 7114 onto my 7012. Do I need to have that on the 7012 as well somehow? If so, does that mean I have to swap the entire dash assy wiring harness as well from the 7114 to the 7012?

 

Thank you

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PhanDad

Some pics would help us understand better. 

I’m not familiar with the Kohler single cylinder electrical systems, but I would think the 7114 tractor would have had an external voltage regulator that has 3 wires.  2 AC input wires from the stator and 1 output wire that supplies +12V to the tractor electrical system.  You need them both. 
 

Some of the 7000 series tractors ran dual systems; my 7016H Briggs has one where it has AC to run the lights and DC to charge the battery.  I think @MikeES thought you had one of these type systems and he was suggesting a way to change the lights from AC power to DC power. 
 

I’ll do some further checking. 
 

The wiring change should be fairly simple once it’s understood what you had and what you have now.  No need to change the wiring harness.  
 

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Bill725

It has been many years (20+), but the Kohler 18HP OHV cast iron engine in my old 7018 had an alternator, meaning it generated AC current, and had a diode, which is a check valve, that would only allow the positive current to flow and not the negative current. The alternator size was small and unregulated amperage. @BLThas a 7018, he will chime in soon.

Edited by Bill725

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SmilinSam

I have never had a Kohler with an unregulated Kohler charging system, nor a Simplicity 7000 or 7100 series that used such a charging system, so I do not know how such a tractor is wired up.

However, on a 7114 The regulator should be attached directly to the engine. Two white wires come off the stator and go to the tabs on the right and left of the regulator. A black wire from the tractor wiring harness goes to the center tab on the regulator. That black wire goes back to the R tab on the keyswitch. The wire off the  A tab(accessory) on the keyswitch would then go to the junction board mike was talking about above. Dont know if your tractor has that or not. If not, you can just run the lights off that wire without the junction block. They just use the junction block so you can add and power a electric lift setup  easily.

Thats how it is setup on a 7114 with a regulated charging system anyhow. 

 

Hope that helps.

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hurleyii
9 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Some pics would help us understand better. 

I’m not familiar with the Kohler single cylinder electrical systems, but I would think the 7114 tractor would have had an external voltage regulator that has 3 wires.  2 AC input wires from the stator and 1 output wire that supplies +12V to the tractor electrical system.  You need them both. 
 

@MikeES

The wiring change should be fairly simple once it’s understood what you had and what you have now.  No need to change the wiring harness.  
 

PhanDad should be correct. I do not own a 7114 but I do have 2 of the 3 models above this and below it. Of course as most of us know the 7116 is Brig's powered but the 916 is not. However they still all  have a regulator that's mounted to the engine already. My guess is it's hooked up already unless the part was removed by you.

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SmilinSam

Just found what I think is a actual wiring diagram for your tractor. If so, looks like the lights on it are on their own circuit. Wire comes off engine to lightswitch and goes on to the lights.  According to this diqagram your tractor should also have the juction board. You would do away with the wire off the engine to the lightswitch and replace it with a wire from the junction board to the lightswitch. 

Your keyswitch shopuld have an R tab.  On the 7012, the other wire off the stator goes to that with a fuse in line.  That wire would go to the center tab on the regulator(black wire on the 7114) Dont think you need that fuse, but you would need the circuit breaker  that is in the wire from the B tab on the keyswitch  to the battery on the 7114. The 71012 should also have this circuit breaker too though according to this diagram.

If anything is not as indicated above , ask more questions before proceeding.

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PhanDad

At @SmilinSam 's advice is right on.

I can't find the wiring diagram he references above, but I believe this your original 3A unregulated system (Kohler Diagram):

image.png.86ad952a2881b78f2df9fae4f56a5895.png

And the Kohler diagram for the new engine:

image.png.1b6a81735021f3948d8b45f99d683cc1.png

The wire colors in the above diagrams are on the engine side of the connector, not the Simplicity wiring colors on the "tractor" side of the connector.  

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PhanDad

Took a shot and checked my 7016H Operators manual since the MFG#s are close.  In that manual, there's this 7012H wiring diagram:

image.thumb.png.06393de4093e37be4ef741d81f8d0926.png

 

And from the Parts Manual, a schematic identifying wire colors:

image.png.176ed31db5366f2c155da5094f2cbfd5.png

 

So if your 7012H wiring looks like the above, remove the white wire from the tractor side of the engine connector (it will be abandoned).  After installing the voltage regulator from the 7114, you need to take the DC output (center tap according to Sam), and connect it to the engine side of the connector such that it connects to the yellow wire on the tractor side.  Then do the dash wiring as described above to hook your lights to the +12V accessory board (terminal board in above diagram).

 

Again, showing us pics of your actual wiring and voltage regulator would confirm our speculation.  

 

  • Thanks 1

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SmilinSam
1 hour ago, PhanDad said:

you need to take the DC output (center tap according to Sam),

 

You beat me to it Bill. Just got done scanning the diagram you posted above. That is indeed what I am referencing.

On the Kohlers in the Simplicity tractors with a regulator/rectifier. The early  Aluminum fin regulators had the prongs arranged in an L shape. They are marked "ac" and  "+". The one I have here shows the  two tabs side by side are the AC tabs. The one below those by itself is the 12v+ to the keyswitch 

The newer styles Regulators are basically flat and the tabs are arranged in  a single  row.  The tabs are not marked. The two outer tabs  are the AC in and the center one is the 12V out to the R on the Keyswitch.  

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PhanDad
8 minutes ago, SmilinSam said:

Just got done scanning the diagram you posted above.

An FYI in case you're not aware.

On most electronic manuals I have (pdf's), when viewing them using Adobe Reader, you can select "Take a Snapshot" from the edit menu, highlight what you want to copy, then you can paste that directly into a post. 

It works most of the time (some files are locked and it won't work).  I'm using Adobe Reader XI, version 11.0.23, on a Dell PC running Win10Pro.  

  

 

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MikeES

All of the AC Kohler 10hp K301 engines that I have seen had the dual unregulated (no regulator/rectifier)  70w lighting/3a charging system.  The 12hp K301 had the 15a regulated charging system.

 

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