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Repair Axle Tube

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Jon

Has anyone successfully repaired an axle tube by TIG welding a crack? I have a small crack on the short side leading from the end of the key way going toward the transmission.

Thanks Jon

Beck Racing And Repair

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PhanDad
3 hours ago, Jon said:

Has anyone successfully repaired an axle tube by TIG welding a crack?

Not that I'm aware.

But on the "outside" crack, a hose clamp has been used to possibly keep the tube from failing.  

It seems most of the catastrophic failures are at the "inside" keyway:

IMG_0152.thumb.JPG.a917a70ab281d19a6189f23ce217226b.JPG

IMG_0154.thumb.JPG.64d8280e3da354e6b1d9f0ce6552467a.JPG

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Jon

Thanks for the input. I am not sure what I am going to do at this point. I did take a few photos and was trying to figure the best course of action. If I can get a new tube #166066 that appears to sub to 1670864, that would be best. I was hoping to make it through the grass cutting season by welding to save time for now.

It appears that if the keyway would have had a larger radius, that would have not caused a stress riser in the corner of the keyway. I am sure it is from plowing snow this last year in Iowa,  new two link tire chains, and the fact that I retro fitted a GX630 Honda 20 HP twin cylinder engine to the machine back in 2015. I will let you know if I repair the tube and if it works in this case.

Thanks Jon

3511051C-4FAE-48FF-BD7A-AA981EB8B624.thumb.jpeg.676040a2cbbdb269a114cee65120d916.jpeg60212E2A-6AE8-4583-B48C-F809883421F9.thumb.jpeg.d5e989f41631a34a04ddfe25914fad0e.jpeg60212E2A-6AE8-4583-B48C-F809883421F9.thumb.jpeg.d5e989f41631a34a04ddfe25914fad0e.jpegEB311B7E-8CEF-4963-BD0F-9CC51C6FC798.thumb.jpeg.117f3144dc6df98b63b8463076390cb5.jpegEB311B7E-8CEF-4963-BD0F-9CC51C6FC798.thumb.jpeg.117f3144dc6df98b63b8463076390cb5.jpeg6F038236-2619-4538-A9D5-D9B2F45318C1.thumb.jpeg.8b6d5668e791c3ca03b1bfa9259fc228.jpeg

4FF060AF-4C42-4FEE-A998-7D711DE4DE4B.jpeg

BA89C111-2FDF-4703-91C4-E77C097629D8.jpeg

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B10Dave

Seems you were lucky to catch the crack before pieces broke away. Were you planning to tig the crack on both inside and outside? I think if you only do the outside it will fail again in short order. However if you do the inside as well you may have to ream or file the weld to allow axle shaft clearance. I would also replace the seal after you make the weld. Good luck and please document the repair if you proceed. I will be following to see the results.

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Bill725

In order to weld repair the tube, the crack really needs to be ground into a V and then welded. Another question is how do you weld the crack in the keyway? If you dont, it will won't take long to crack again. Also, check the keys and keyways between the axle shaft and differential gear and between the axle tube drive gear, inside the transaxle, and axle tube. IMHO, the axle tube needs to be replaced.

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Horvik

I never heard of a successful repair on one of these. Al Edens would say that the keyway would wear some, and then if it get old enough or hot rodded, it will crack. I just pull it and replace it along with new keys. That is one of the "weak spots" these old boys have.

 

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MikeES

Worn keys is culprit, if we would only check them every 20 or 30 years before they break the tube.  :/

When we started tractor pulling we broke a tube (on the 3rd pull) broke the right side transaxle case too, did not check it before.  Put in used parts and hand fit and files all keys to fit tight.   Never broke a tube axle again with 100s of pulls over a 15 year span.

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Jon

Good morning all,

Thanks for the additional information. I did V out some of the crack but probably should have done more. The keys being tight are a major part of the shaft performing well. I think if there was a 0.005–0.010 radius in the root of the keyway, that would also eliminate the stress riser.

I am going to order a new tube and axle but try to get through the grass cutting season on the repair. The following was done:

a. Preheat tube to burn out any grease that was in the crack.

b. V out crack and used a chain vise grip to secure tube.

c. TIG weld at 160—200A using 1/16” ER70S-2 filler rod, I figured that would be best in this application.

d. Weld as far into the tube as I could.

e. Install bushing past flush with tube so the inner edge was even with the edge of the grease fitting hole.

I attached a few photos of the repair. The keyway is a little rough but the key seem to fit ok.

Thanks Jon

CE05CE41-A5B3-4984-B56D-00099EE7AA63.jpeg

50C6340B-9868-4051-A3DA-099EFE882839.jpeg

3424998C-DEF5-46DE-B94E-30F692A2370C.jpeg

5298FE41-C7FF-4C10-9373-DF269DDD6237.jpeg

78016072-6CC0-4382-90D3-95FA8B4CEEA2.jpeg

49D7F597-9851-4B2C-BDDE-AB64F78EC8F9.jpeg

81562941-8870-4A16-B090-9DC5C21561EF.jpeg

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PhanDad

Super impressive; hopefully it'll hold - and forever would be good.  

4 hours ago, Jon said:

I am going to order a new tube and axle but try to get through the grass cutting season on the repair.

You didn't mention your tractor Model or MFG, but if it uses the 166066-->1670864 axle tube, it mostly likely uses the newer welded on left hub and that axle is NLA.  If it's an older tractor with the removable left hub, the hub is available but the axle is also NLA.  You'll fine a new axle tube is very expensive.  A far more cost effect solution is to find a suitable parts hydro tractor and either swap complete trannys or remove the axle tube to repair your existing tranny.   

If you pursue a purchasing a new axle tube, I suggest calling around to old dealers; they may have one "on the shelf" collecting dust and selling it at a reasonable price is better for them than waiting for someone else to pay the current price.  

Also be advised that there are several axle tubes used in Simplicity/AC "Sovereign" tractors.  See this post for reference:

 https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/64934-electric-tractor-needs-help-3415h-axle-tube-compatible-with-712/?tab=comments#comment-518011

 

 

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Bill725

Hydro Axle Tube w/ Bushings, P/N 1670864ASM, eBay SEPW, $290

Axle Shaft, P/N 2177900ASM, eBay SEPW, $346

Gasket, P/N 2166043SM

Axle Tube Seals (2), P/N 2154269SM or Timken/National 473157

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PhanDad
21 hours ago, Bill725 said:

Hydro Axle Tube w/ Bushings, P/N 1670864ASM, eBay SEPW, $290

Much better price than Jack's

 

21 hours ago, Bill725 said:

Axle Shaft, P/N 2177900ASM, eBay SEPW, $346

It's a SEPW replacement part; pics make it look like a used shaft with freshly painted hub.  But as @Jon suggests below, the discoloration is probably from heat treating.  (And OEM shafts don't have the pilot holes in each end of the shaft.)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Simplicity-2177900ASM-Rear-Axle-Assembly-Replacement-/124192623027

 

Edited by PhanDad
Revised "used shaft" statement

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Jon

Good morning Bill,

I believe that the shaft is new but appears to be used looking due to the heat treating that has been done in the areas where the bushings and keyway are located. I think the paint is applied to the surfaces that are on the outside of the axle tube that are exposed.

I initially stated my machine is a 7018H but it is the following:

1977 Simplicity Sovereign 7016H

I.D. No. 1690202 001392

Engine Model: 326431

Engine Type: 0190-01

Engine Code: 7607211

Sundstrand Series 15 Hydrostatic Transmission

For the cost of the stock tube and axle assemblies, I was considering calling up Strange Engineering or Moser to see what it would cost to make them with the updated keyway’s. 😁

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Bill725
19 hours ago, PhanDad said:

pics make it look like a used shaft with freshly painted hub. 

I called SEPW and talked to Jerry and he had a machine shop reproduce a batch of 10 axle shafts.

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PhanDad
4 hours ago, Jon said:

Good morning Bill,

I believe that the shaft is new but appears to be used looking due to the heat treating that has been done in the areas where the bushings and keyway are located. I think the paint is applied to the surfaces that are on the outside of the axle tube that are exposed.

I initially stated my machine is a 7018H but it is the following:

1977 Simplicity Sovereign 7016H

I.D. No. 1690202 001392

Engine Model: 326431

Engine Type: 0190-01

Engine Code: 7607211

Sundstrand Series 15 Hydrostatic Transmission

For the cost of the stock tube and axle assemblies, I was considering calling up Strange Engineering or Moser to see what it would cost to make them with the updated keyway’s. 😁

As to SEPW axle shaft, I believe you are correct and I have revised my post above.

Your tractor is a 7016H, my favorite Simplicity tractor, just the "right" size (as is my Hommie T-12).  I also have a 7016H, a bit newer, a 1978 MFG#1690342.  Main difference is a gear tooth starter on the Briggs vs your S/G.  

I believe both our tractors have the NLA #1651517 axle tube, not the available #1670864 (#166066) axle tube. 

For reference, here's a couple of IPL pages from an old multi-MFG#  7100 series tractors parts manual where they switched back to the older style axle tube (Vickers and early Sundstrand hydros):  

image.thumb.png.d87d9478ecf6d95eb9ee7f55b47aa6ba.png

Note the notation for part #12. 

image.png.0c1234fedee36e713276076069243d8b.png

So as I see it, if you get a tube made with "updated keyways", you'll need a matching main drive gear and spacer  in addition to the new style keys.  

And while on this topic, do you have an opinion on key choice? 

The original (and "updated") keys are 1/4" Sq x 29/32" long (my measurement).  They switched to HiPro .187x 2.125 keys (website parts listing description) with a matching wider gear hub.  (Pics of the two different style gears can be seen in the "electric tractor" post I referenced above).    I would think the ".187" of the HiPro key description would mean the key is 3/16" wide, but the keyway in the reference post is larger, which means there's either a misprint in the web site description and/or I don't know how to read the HiPro Key nomenclature.  

 

Edited by PhanDad
Revised key discussion at end of post
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Horvik
On 4/11/2021 at 9:43 AM, Jon said:

Good morning all,

Thanks for the additional information. I did V out some of the crack but probably should have done more. The keys being tight are a major part of the shaft performing well. I think if there was a 0.005–0.010 radius in the root of the keyway, that would also eliminate the stress riser.

I am going to order a new tube and axle but try to get through the grass cutting season on the repair. The following was done:

a. Preheat tube to burn out any grease that was in the crack.

b. V out crack and used a chain vise grip to secure tube.

c. TIG weld at 160—200A using 1/16” ER70S-2 filler rod, I figured that would be best in this application.

d. Weld as far into the tube as I could.

e. Install bushing past flush with tube so the inner edge was even with the edge of the grease fitting hole.

I attached a few photos of the repair. The keyway is a little rough but the key seem to fit ok.

Thanks Jon

CE05CE41-A5B3-4984-B56D-00099EE7AA63.jpeg

50C6340B-9868-4051-A3DA-099EFE882839.jpeg

3424998C-DEF5-46DE-B94E-30F692A2370C.jpeg

5298FE41-C7FF-4C10-9373-DF269DDD6237.jpeg

78016072-6CC0-4382-90D3-95FA8B4CEEA2.jpeg

49D7F597-9851-4B2C-BDDE-AB64F78EC8F9.jpeg

81562941-8870-4A16-B090-9DC5C21561EF.jpeg

You did a heck of good job on that repair! I hope it lasts a long time.

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Jon

Thanks Horvik, although is seems to be ok, I think I will purchase a new tube, keys, and axle shaft to go through the transmission this fall. I measured the keys and shaft keyways, 0.250” X 1.693” long on the outer keyways and 0.250” X 0.250” X 1.380” on the keys.

I have the numbers off the tag on the transmission:

90–1079 LH

02–SG  27088

I believe that MikeES is correct about the keys being worn causing problems.

Thanks Jon

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76E42996-3D33-41F3-9834-FB4621AD2DC9.jpeg

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Jon

Good evening,

I am working with SEPW on the shaft and appears that the key size outside of the transaxle is not the issue. Bill is correct that the inner features are the factor. Below is my response and SEPW’s reply:

Good morning sepw,

Keyways are 0.250” wide X 1.693” long, keys are 0.250” X 0.250” X 1.380”. See attached photos.

Thanks Jon

SEPW’s reply

Good morning,

We need to know where the inner key way is in relation to the inner groove cut. From the end it is approximately to the middle of the groove is 4.5" and the keyway follows directly after the groove with about an 1/8" in space. If that matches, then it should be fine.

Thanks, SEPW

It appears that the only way to know for sure, is to disassemble the transaxle part way to check.

Jon 

 

 
 

 

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