Sorta senior moment, could use some help

[boox]

About 5 years ago I was working on a 3114 that had a starter switch problem. Some health problems arose and I left it where it was. So now I'm stuck because I can't remember which wire goes to which terminal on the replacement ignition switch which is actually a 5 pole switch from another tractor. Can any of you guys point me in the right direction? One has terminals marked M-S-L-G-R going clockwise from the bottom, one has terminals marked S-L-A-R-B clockwise from the bottom and I have one more that has no markings. I have searched online for a wiring diagram with no success so any help will be greatly appreciated. I still own 5 simplicitys so I hope to get some more running again but at 75, it will be slow going.

Topic

[PhanDad]

Your 3114 should have a Briggs engine which means it’s magneto ignition and the mag is grounded to shutdown the engine.  So you should use the switch with the “M” terminal, which should be ground when the ignition switch is “off”.  
@SmilinSam listed the various letter meanings in this post:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/66041-7116-6-speed-switch/

As mentioned in the above post, it’s always a good idea to check the function of each terminal with a meter. 
 

[Ronald Hribar]

The first switch is for a Briggs

the second for Koehler with battery ignition

I THINK

[SmilinSam]

Some inconsistencies here....

There was never a 3114 built.  First 14hp engines were in the 3314's in 1971. Those wouldbe Briggs.

First question is ...

What exactly is your tractor?

Second

Is your engine a Brigss with magneto ignition?....or is it a transplanted Kohler with battery ignition?

 

As to your keyswitches..  I dont think either are for Briggs engines.  Have not seen ones layed out with the letters you are saying are on them. However,  "R" is the common designation for "regulator/rectifier". That is found on Kohler keyswitches.  The one with a "R" and a "M" could theoretically be for a Kohler magnum series engine..as "M" usually stands for "magneto". The other switch makes no sense to me.unless the "L" is actually an "I"....in which case it would be for a Kohler battery ignition K series. "L" usually means either load  or lights. If it is lights, then it would be a 4 position switch instead of a 3 position switch. "I" usually means "ignition" ie power to a external 12v coil.

"A" usually means "accesory"..ie lights, power lifts, etc. You would not usually find both an "L" and an "A" on a 3 position switch...just on a 4 position switch where the switch runs the lights in the 4th position.

Only way to really know what a switch does is to use a mutlt meter to see which circuits connect in each key position.

You are also going to have to know which wire does what on the tractor harness going to the switch. On old tractors its never a good idea to trust the wire colors as being associated with a original schematic. So many have been butchered  and altered over the years by previous owners....

If you hook the wrong wires up to the wrong keyswitch, you could cook some expensive components or even the whole wiring harness.  Been the recipient of dead tractors suffering from such on many occasions.

[boox]

Sam and others...It's a 3314H with aBriggs engine 14 hp. Now I've looked for a replacement and Jacks shows what appears to be a 4 terminal switch part number 2022201sm which is the correct number according to the parts sheet. So what is the 5th wire for?

Does anyone have a 3314 that has a 5 terminal switch? Or  a 4 terminal switch and which is correct?

Edited August 16, 2021 by boox
more info

[PhanDad]

Here's the wiring diagram for your tractor:

The ignition switch shows 4 terminals:

1) Purple - "start" signal to solenoid - the "S" (start) terminal (top wire in diagram above)

2) Dark green(?) to the voltage regulator via the circuit breaker - the "B" (battery) terminal

3) White to kill the spark - the "M" (magneto) terminal

4) Black(?) for Accessory power - the "L" (load) or "A" (accessory) terminal  

The missing terminal is the ground terminal.  The old switches didn't wire a ground terminal (if it had one), it relied on a case ground, and can be troublesome due to corrosion.  The newer ignition switches have a wired, dedicated ground terminal. 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by PhanDad
rewrote 5th terminal info

[PhanDad]

50 minutes ago, boox said:

Jacks shows what appears to be a 4 terminal switch part number 2022201sm which is the correct number according to the parts sheet.

There's a typo in the part number.  The original Simplicity part number was 122201 and the replacement is 2122201SM; it's expensive.  And based on this pic, it only has 4 terminals and they're not arranged in the "usual" manner:  

Does your tractor wiring have a plastic connector for the wires or are the wires individually connected?  I tore down a 3310H for parts, but I don't remember the ignition switch had a connector.  I'll look around and see what I saved.  

The issue with many of the "magneto" switches is the location of the terminals.  Older magneto ignition switches had the location of the "M" terminal on "top" (by itself) where the "S" terminal is on the newer tractors.  

If you don't have the plastic connector, or don't care about using it, there are many after market 5 terminal switches available to use.  

 

 

[PhanDad]

On 8/16/2021 at 3:51 PM, PhanDad said:

I'll look around and see what I saved.  

I have both the ignition switch and wiring harness from the 3310H parts tractor.   The ignition switch is like the pic above; some pics:

And there is plastic wiring connector for the back of the switch:

The connector contains the battery (B), start (S), and kill (D) terminals.  The load or accessory (C) terminal is separate.  

Besides being a 4 terminal switch with an odd layout, the mounting protrusion measure 0.550" with a cut flat spot.  So it mounts in a 9/16" hole.  That's different from most replacement switches which mount in a 5/8" hole (the 5 terminal "Briggs" magneto ignition I have measures 0.615"). 

With the above information, hopefully you and @ParkerBarker can find a cheaper alternative.  

PS - I never tried to see if the 'ol Briggs in the 3310H would run, but when just checking the switch now, there is no continuity between the case and terminal D.  I even liberally sprayed electrical contact cleaner into the switch without success.   Did your old ignition switch have the same failure? 

 

[boox]

 

told ya it was a senior moment...turns out there are only 4 wires to the switch,,,there was a loose green one which goes to the gen light....so I found the right switch in my box of switches and the first hook-up threw a spark at the solenoid with the switch off...so came back in here, got phan dads message and identified the right wires so as soon as the battery is fully charged I'm hoping it will run, and hopefully I've got it right now, but then I  discovered what appears to be a mouse nest under the front engine cover so right now I'm pulling the engine to clear it out After 4+ years of sitting on my tractor stand I hope to get it out of the shed and another one in. 

I did a continuity check on the new switch and it show continuity between one terminal and the case and shows nothing between any other terminals does that sound right?

Edited August 18, 2021 by boox
more info

[PhanDad]

22 minutes ago, boox said:

I did a continuity check on the new switch and it show continuity between one terminal and the case and shows nothing between any other terminals does that sound right?

Yes. This should be your switch pin out continuity:

3310H Ignition Switch Pin-Out
Off = CASE + D
On: B+C
Start: B+S+C

As stated above, my old switch didn't show  Case to "D" continuity in the "OFF" position, otherwise it tested as above. 

 

[ParkerBarker]

Bought the OEM switch. Solved all problems, but spendy. About done with "vintage" bull ***.