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720nut

AGCO 2025 dies

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720nut

Guy's need your help , my Agco 2025 has run great but went to start it yesterday and it would start but as soon as I pulled the pto on it would die.  I've bypassed the brake and seat switches but unsure as to how to bypass the pto, this is a dedicated loader tractor so  I need pto to basicly be on all the time. I know some will say ya need all these switches but when they start to go bad they are a pita.

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PhanDad
5 hours ago, 720nut said:

I've bypassed the brake and seat switches but unsure as to how to bypass the pto

I'm not familiar with your tractor, but based on my late model Sovereign knowledge, I'd bet it has something to do with a safety interlock module.  I would think your tractor would have one.  

As to "bypass the pto", is it a manual PTO like the Sovereign or an electric PTO?  I need more info on your tractor to help (MFG#).  

 

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gwiseman

Lloyd, I know its elementary but make sure the cruise control arm is all the way back. Its happened to me. 

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720nut
Posted (edited)

It has electric pto and the pulley makes sense. I have a schematic for it but wiring ain't one of my strong points

Package # 1693127

Model # 1693126

Serial # 00532

Wish I'd learned a little wiring over the years but ya know ?

Edited by 720nut

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PhanDad

Found the wiring diagrams; but they are very complicated and I agree with @abu507 that there's no interlock module.  It appears to me that the ground path for the front PTO, rear PTO, and Pedal position all go through the seat switch - if there's no ground path, then the "magneto kill" function (engine shutdown) won't occur. 

And it appears the seat switch/connector is special based on this section of the wiring diagram:

image.png.f70a51a24d2434900fb8d11f09e53fc4.png

If the seat is unoccupied the switch is normally closed.  When it's occupied, the switch is open.  To disrupt the ground path, you want the switch open.  BUT if you disconnect the switch the "connector has a shorting feature" so it's not easy to defeat. 

How did you bypass the seat switch?  It appears to me, the only way to do it would be to cut one of the wires.  

    

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Brettw

I would confirm the wiring on whatever bypass you have created.  Has it worked in the past with these bypasses installed, or did it just start after installing the bypasses?

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720nut

guys I didn't cut anything, I mirely removed the switch from the seat after finding out the hard way that you can't just cut and bypass like on other tractors , so I took two zip ties  and made it so it was like sitting in the seat . Has worked for years, same with the brake switch, which I have a zip tie on it also.

Maybe not the best setup on the seat but it has worked for years

DSCN4501.JPG

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720nut
On 5/10/2022 at 2:58 PM, PhanDad said:

Found the wiring diagrams; but they are very complicated and I agree with @abu507 that there's no interlock module.  It appears to me that the ground path for the front PTO, rear PTO, and Pedal position all go through the seat switch - if there's no ground path, then the "magneto kill" function (engine shutdown) won't occur. 

And it appears the seat switch/connector is special based on this section of the wiring diagram:

image.png.f70a51a24d2434900fb8d11f09e53fc4.png

If the seat is unoccupied the switch is normally closed.  When it's occupied, the switch is open.  To disrupt the ground path, you want the switch open.  BUT if you disconnect the switch the "connector has a shorting feature" so it's not easy to defeat. 

How did you bypass the seat switch?  It appears to me, the only way to do it would be to cut one of the wires.  

    

Bill what is this shorting feature you mention  ?  I tried jumping the wires back and forth and that's when I came up with this as it would not allow me to do it

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PhanDad

Lloyd it sounds (and looks) like you already found the "shorting feature" based on how you "jumped" the seat switch.  The way I read the feature is if you pull the switch from the connector, instead of the connector being open (disconnected - as if the wire were cut), there's something in the connector (a spring or spring assisted rod?) that makes the connector closed (connects the two connector wires the same as if you stuck a typical jumper across the connector).  This feature makes bypassing the switch difficult and you were creative with your bolt and zip ties.  

Does the engine stop if you activate the other PTO switch?  (As I read the wiring diagram, this is the only other safety that passes through the seat switch since you bypassed the pedal switch.)  If so, then your seat switch bypass has failed.  Causes could be the switch has failed internally or it has vibrated out of the connector and the "shorting feature" has engaged.  

Can you remove one of the wires from the seat switch connector?  Usually there's a slot where a small screw driver can be inserted to release the wire from the connector.  See @BLT's video for more info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwDSl6B4crw&list=UUqqYykGUxY3mSx4Vi-OLTEg&index=7I 

If you can, this would be a good way to take the seat switch out of the circuit ("open") without cutting either of the connector wires (and you could remove the switch from the tractor).  Just tape up the wire you remove so it doesn't make ground.  (It would be best to remove the brown/black wire since it is the source of the ground).

image.png.8e4439ca3d6ac8ef7edf6302c151e7cb.png  

If you can't get a wire out of the seat connector another option would be to remove either of the wires at their other ends at the harness connector.  

Here's the full wiring diagram with the ignition/shutdown circuit bolded:

image.thumb.png.fd8b05872e18826f27d97cf59307135f.png

Maybe someone else has some idea of what's wrong.

 

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abu507

You can pull out that little piece a resistor or end line I guess out of the plug with needle nose., and then can by pass seat switch. My guess is a bad pto switch 

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720nut

thanks guys I think the seat switch is becoming real touchy as I started the tractor and played with it as I engaged the pto and as of rite now it is back working as it has all along

 

 

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720nut

Ran it all day today and other than running out of gas, it did fine. Just hoping I can come across someone who will know how to eliminate or bypass this seat switch

 

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720nut

well we were back at it today, would shutoff as soon as I pulled the pto awitch on , so I figured time to see what makes it tick.

Has a small spring wire in the plug that contacts both wires , switch has a small copper contact that contacts both wires when operator leaves the seat.  So I cut the plug off twisted it together and no good , pulled wires apart and it sets they working just as it should, cut both wires off even and wrapped them with tape , went and sprayed 15 gal of 2-4-D on yard and didn't have any issues.

Whether it is the correct way or not we will find out. I assume if a child were to run it it may not be safe to Mr Naders specs but for now it's to my specs.

 

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PhanDad
1 hour ago, 720nut said:

So I cut the plug off twisted it together and no good

That is what should happen since having the wires connected grounds the engine magnetos.  

1 hour ago, 720nut said:

cut both wires off even and wrapped them with tape

Now no ground to the magnetos.  Hopefully you taped both wires individually so there's no chance moisture or other issue could make wires connect under the tape.  

1 hour ago, 720nut said:

I assume if a child were to run it it may not be safe to Mr Naders specs but for now it's to my specs.

You are correct, Mr Nader wouldn't be happy.  

 

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