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AC710

Is a 416S worth the trouble

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AC710

I have a possibility of picking up an Allis 416S, likely for free. I know it has been sitting under cover for at least 10 years and maybe much more. It's complete with a two stage snow blower at maybe other attachments. I know these are an oddball from the breakup era, but wondering how far to go to fix it up and peddle. I figure at least the Shuttle is probably out of adjustment and hopefully that's why it was parked. Don't know the status of the engine, except it's all there and not torn apart. Any thoughts and/or advice? 

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simplewrench

I’m not a fan of the look of that style, but I know there are ppl that like them. I’ve had a couple shuttle shifts and I do like mowing with them. Probably not helping a whole lot here but if nothing else it sounds like the price is right. I’d probably go for it. 

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AC710
17 minutes ago, simplewrench said:

I’m not a fan of the look of that style,

I thought I had found a great project when I first saw this, then learned what it was so have not been excited about it. Then the door seemed to be closed, but now it has been reopened. People I knew had it, then moved and sold the property, then the buyer reneged on the contract so they got it back. Think I'll ask when I go up there next.

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AllisChalmers716

I would go for this tractor,even more so if it's free/cheap. They are the"red headed step child" to the rest of them,but they are still cool. I have a 410s and it's not bad.

-Tommy

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oldsarge

I've been using one for 30 years for every thing Love it 'My 314 variable is a little better for mowing Unlike any used hydro,you can slip the f/r lever to nuetral, get off and do things without the machine wandering off. The underframe mount 300 style blower is a good one.Does it have electric lift? all 400s have electric pto.Set up by the book,shuttle is great!!!!!!!!

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AC710
1 hour ago, oldsarge said:

The underframe mount 300 style blower is a good one. Does it have electric lift?

Good questions. I had not looked closely at the blower until this spring, and was surprised to see the two stage with a side mounted drive pulley. Blowers are a chore without a power lift! Do you know if the electric lift is the same as those on the 700/7000 tractors? My biggest unknown is parts availability.

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PhanDad
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, AC710 said:

Do you know if the electric lift is the same as those on the 700/7000 tractors?

I don't believe so.  The AC300/400 series lift actuator is the same as the AC Homelite electric lift which is different from the Simplicity (pin location).  And the support brackets are all different (The AC Homelites have the support built into the frame).  Some pics, first a comparison, Homelite/AC on left, Simplicity on right with support bracket:  

Comparea.jpg.909ca21b34189be24fe2c527d474a3cd.jpg

 

AC 400:

416pic1.thumb.jpg.a831cfef93da9778ac4188682915991d.jpg

 

AC 300 (I believe, not sure if it's complete):

pic1.thumb.jpg.3c3931f80fd8b80342cc0fa6043d2a4e.jpg

 

I'd like to see a pic of the 2 stage snowblower. 

 

Edited by PhanDad
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AC710
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PhanDad said:

I'd like to see a pic of the 2 stage snowblower. 

 

I think I'll be up there on Saturday. I will get a better look and some photos.

The blower may be an adaptation. I don't see anything like it cruising around the net. It had an external pulley on the right side of the tractor grille (seemed odd, but it's a 416 I don't know much about), driving a pulley shaft on the back of the blower, (similar to AC single stagers, but on the right side and tractor-driven pulley on the outside end. hooked by a splined shaft to a 90 degree gearbox that runs the augers. It's not hooked to the tractor, so I am not sure of the lash-up.

Edited by AC710
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AllisChalmers716
5 hours ago, AC710 said:

I will get a better look and some photos.

We'll be waiting! :)

-Tommy

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AC710
Posted (edited)

Well, I went up today to help with some projects. The people are working on fixing up the place to buy it. I asked about the tractor and he said he was going to scrap it by June 30. He said "Please, take it away, its yours, here use my trailer!" So I am going back this week to get it.

Inspection reveals an interesting hybrid:

- The tractor seems to be all there and no obvious damage. It has rear weights and front chrome hubcaps.

- The snow blower appears to be a vintage Ford GT two stage blower. I found a SN sticker, but no MFG logo. The accumulator auger is run by a chain drive like an AC from the end, instead of a center worm like most 2-stage blowers. The 2nd stage has a chain sprocket driver, but it is a mystery how it hooks up. The blower drives from a center mounted pulley; I don't know what the idler pulley beside the grille is for. There is a heavy-duty under frame mounting bracket; I don't know how that fits into the scheme either.

- The deck is yellow - presumably JD. That is like some kind of insult, right?

- Notice in the background of the first pic - there are two round tubes there. They are 18-inch x 12-foot wooden culverts, built like a barrel with long staves and wire bands every 4 inches.

416 -1.jpg

416-4.jpg

416-5.jpg

416-2.jpg

Edited by AC710
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PhanDad

Thanks for posting the pics. 
As to the wooden tubes, I’ve seen a mile or two  of them in use bringing mountain spring water down to small towns in Switzerland (?) not too many years ago. 

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AC710
8 hours ago, PhanDad said:

As to the wooden tubes, I’ve seen a mile or two  of them in use bringing mountain spring water down to small towns in Switzerland (?) not too many years ago. 

I thought they were unique enough to mention. The recent owner bought them for some project they never did. I have seen derelict water systems here and there that used them, including a few they have dug up here in Whitefish, MT. It looks like they may have been treated with some kind of tar coating at one time - great idea for drinking water!

22 minutes ago, Chris727 said:

It has the desirable/uncommon starter wheel weights. 

I had not heard the term "starter weights" before. Does that mean they fit on the inner ring of the wheel? And the larger more common ones on the outside? I have been looking for a set of iron weights for a while, but didn't want to pay the EBay prices.

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Chris727
21 minutes ago, AC710 said:

I thought they were unique enough to mention. The recent owner bought them for some project they never did. I have seen derelict water systems here and there that used them, including a few they have dug up here in Whitefish, MT. It looks like they may have been treated with some kind of tar coating at one time - great idea for drinking water!

I had not heard the term "starter weights" before. Does that mean they fit on the inner ring of the wheel? And the larger more common ones on the outside? I have been looking for a set of iron weights for a while, but didn't want to pay the EBay prices.

I don’t think Simplicity used the term “Starter Weight” but other brands have. Yes I believe you should be able to stack the standard Simplicity 25 lb weights on the outside of these. I really like the look of these inner weights. Have a set on my 917 and just grabbed another set last week. 

E0078DF8-864A-4183-A38D-FFE4440590DC.jpeg

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AC710

I picked up the tractor and snow blower yesterday. I put air in the tires and surprisingly they held up. I hooked up a come along to load the tractor and of course the wheels turned tight the wrong way. I grabbed the steering wheel to straighten them up and uh-oh, it's not connected to anything. The deck seems to just drag along on the rollers and scalp wheels - the manual lift doesn't seem to be connected, except to the rear lift. I'm beginning to think I may have paid too much (free) for a likely parts tractor.

The snow blower is interesting! let's say it's strongly built - like 250 lbs,, but obviously not designed by Simplicity/AC engineers. It's a Ford. It uses a belt-drive pulley to drive two 90-degree gearboxes, a U-joint driveshaft, 6 chain sprockets with 3 chain drives, and a U-joint in the chute rotator! Compared to a typical walk-behind two-stage that uses one driveshaft and a single worm drive gearbox that does the same thing.. Yeowie!

My current thought is to get the tractor going and set it up with the snow blower to sell. But I need to get the deck out and find out more about the tractor's condition.

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CarlH
On 6/19/2022 at 6:27 PM, Chris727 said:

Yes I believe you should be able to stack the standard Simplicity 25 lb weights on the outside of these.

I have used them that way.  BTW, I now use the Bolens/FMC weights as starters - much heavier.

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PhanDad
On 6/19/2022 at 6:27 PM, Chris727 said:

Yes I believe you should be able to stack the standard Simplicity 25 lb weights on the outside of these.

 

1 hour ago, CarlH said:

I have used them that way.  BTW, I now use the Bolens/FMC weights as starters - much heavier.

But they won't touch so you have to either double nut each weight bolt pair or use two bolt pairs per wheel.  

I use them as "starter weights" and stack steel plates on top of them; here's the winter setup:  

IMG_0274.thumb.JPG.548f1cd75db6410056296bd05883336a.JPG

Two 3/4" and one 2" plate stack.   

 

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Chris727
3 hours ago, CarlH said:

BTW Chris, did you get both pairs of Simplicity 25# weights at Evansville for $50/pair?

No but would have if I had seen them. I believe I was speaking with the seller on Saturday saying he had some weights he had sold too cheap. 

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AC710
On 6/21/2022 at 2:04 PM, AC710 said:

The snow blower is interesting! let's say it's strongly built - like 250 lbs,

I unloaded the blower and put it on a scale - tipped at 220 lbs, not including the under tractor mount. The mounting is about as complex as the drive system.  Looks like it could be lifted a few inches off the ground, using some helper springs like those used for snow plow flop over springs. And that pulley by the tractor grille - they ran a cable over that and hooked it to the right side rockshaft lever. I can't imagine lifting this beast with a manual lever.

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AC710
1 hour ago, PhanDad said:

That's why it's called an "Armstrong Lift".

 

My arms aren't that strong! I put electric lifts on my tractors because I was wrenching my back picking up the snow plow and earthcavator.

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