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Legacy XL Weak Hydraulics


78kitty

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I recently picked up a 2005-ish (going by the emission tag on the engine) Simplicity Legacy XL 4x4 27 horsepower diesel with 3 point and rear PTO, aka model 1694413. It also came with the model 1694396 loader. I bought it knowing the hydraulics were weak and it wasn't going to be an easy-fix. It drives forward and reverse fine but the steering is hard to turn and the 3 point will barely creep up and not move up at all if you push down on the arms. The oil level is fine, the hydraulic oil is clean, and filter looks new so I'm sure all the 'easy fix' things have been tried at least once already. I am under the assumption I'll need to replace the power steering unit part number 1725288SM, which seems to be what causes this from what I've seen online.  However, before I fork out the $700 or so for the part I wanted to see if there was a way to test it to make sure it's the problem.  

I saw a post online somewhere (not this forum) where a guy said his steering got hard and hydraulics quit working. He took it to a shop, and the tech called Simplicity who were able to walk him through diagnosing the power steering unit as the problem. I called Simplicity today only to be referred to a local dealer because they do not have any technical support for problems like I'm having. I called the local dealer, was put on hold for a long time, and finally a voice recorder came on saying to leave a message and they'd call me back. I left a brief message stating my situation and not surprisingly no one has called me back. My friend wants to try and bypass the unit and see if the other hydraulics then work. I tried searching these forums but didn't find any posts about this. Has anyone else had any experience with these and if anyone has a way to test my current unit before I buy a new one I'd really appreciate it!   

LegacyXL-Pic2.jpg

LegacyXL-Pic3.jpg

Edited by 78kitty
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There are many others who know much more than I, but I've read here that the wrong filter could be too restrictive. Since it's new, (and cheap) I would double check the filter and make sure it's the right one for your application. Good luck, Dave

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54 minutes ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

Every instance I have encountered, the orbital valve is the culprit. 

Josh is this prone to the XL's or all Legacy's.  I have no problems with mine but just wondering if the early Legacy's have this problem too

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5 hours ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

Every instance I have encountered, the orbital valve is the culprit. 

Thanks for the replies! @Talntedmrgreen I assume the orbital valve is a component in the Power Steering Unit  for these tractors then? If so, is it replaceable, repairable, rebuildable, or are you pretty much stuck buying the whole Power Steering Unit? 

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1 hour ago, 78kitty said:

Thanks for the replies! @Talntedmrgreen I assume the orbital valve is a component in the Power Steering Unit  for these tractors then? If so, is it replaceable, repairable, rebuildable, or are you pretty much stuck buying the whole Power Steering Unit? 

Yes, the orbital valve is the power steering unit.  The implement circuit flows to it first, and then beyond to your auxillary ports and implement lift cylinder.  It does impact drive power, only steering and lift.  I have replaced a couple.  They are a bummer to buy, and already double the cost of what they were 2 years ago.  

To date, quite a few folks more knowledable than I have tried to find a repair/rebuild solution for these, but come up empty, or with a hydro shop bill more than a new valve's cost.  Sadly, a costly repair bill may be preferable now.  There may be the possiblity of finding a compatible danfoss unit on the second hand or surplus market, but I haven't found a good match yet.

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8 minutes ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

Yes, the orbital valve is the power steering unit.  The implement circuit flows to it first, and then beyond to your auxillary ports and implement lift cylinder.  It does impact drive power, only steering and lift.  I have replaced a couple.  They are a bummer to buy, and already double the cost of what they were 2 years ago.  

To date, quite a few folks more knowledable than I have tried to find a repair/rebuild solution for these, but come up empty, or with a hydro shop bill more than a new valve's cost.  Sadly, a costly repair bill may be preferable now.  There may be the possiblity of finding a compatible danfoss unit on the second hand or surplus market, but I haven't found a good match yet.

@Talntedmrgreen thank you so much! You've probably just saved me a bunch of time, frustration, and probably money. Yes it'll hurt to buy the unit or have it rebuilt but I knew that was most likely going to be the situation going into it and factored it in.

Do you know if the units were ever upgraded? Basically I'm asking if I replace it if its more than likely to end up failing again. 

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18 hours ago, 78kitty said:

@Talntedmrgreen thank you so much! You've probably just saved me a bunch of time, frustration, and probably money. Yes it'll hurt to buy the unit or have it rebuilt but I knew that was most likely going to be the situation going into it and factored it in.

Do you know if the units were ever upgraded? Basically I'm asking if I replace it if its more than likely to end up failing again. 

I honestly do not know.  Without understanding what exactly causes the failure, I'm not sure if it was ever addressed. 

I can say that I have seen more fail under ligher use, than harder use.  I truly beleive that low, light use, etc is more harmful to these than consistent, hard work.  Some of the best performing units I have seen have been very high hour, beat up machines.  The units I have seen replaced, and replaced myself were in that 'barn find', hardly used or run, 15 year old machine with under 200hrs.  Also, shimming the relief on these machines is popular, as it boosts the PSI to the orbital valve and then the hydraulic uses beyond (Steeing, lift, load/implement use).  I have never heard of a shimmed machine losing the orbital valve, though intuition may suggest that putting more strain on a commonly damaged part would shorten its life.  I feel as though the higher PSI helps them in the long run.

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I've been reading this post with interest even though I don't own a Legacy or plan to.  I was thinking this problem might effect my PS Sovereign.  The Legacy hydraulic setup is similar to the Sovereign, but I checked and the sovereign PS valve is a different part number from the Legacy, so hopefully I won't have this issue.  Also noticed there is a detailed parts breakdown for the Sovereign PS valve, but done for the Legacy.  

Anyway, there is this hydraulic plumbing diagram in the Legacy XL MFG#1694451 parts manual I added the black flow directional arrows:

  62d17d925cd77_LegacyHydraulicDiagrama.jpg.6f44cb8191a502b624c05730854296f1.jpg

Since it appears the orbital valve internal RV is stuck open or failed so there is little pressure available, would it be possible to add an RV in the return line (red line) so pressure would be maintained?   

 

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Hello, I have a complete power steering setup for a Soveriegn 1693407 for sale in the classified ads

or contact me if interested.

 

Thanks Ken in Mi

IMG_4196.JPG

IMG_4200.JPG

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