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Stuck 7116H


jhnstn

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I just picked up a 7116H Allis Chalmers in  working condition. This is my first tractor and have very little mechanic experience but eager to learn on this machine.

 

I was moving some fill sand with a Johnny bucket attachment and after about 2 hours of operation I noticed the tractor was drifting backwards. The guy who sold me the tractor showed me how to adjust the hydrostatic neutral so I did that ( I need to pick up a 1/2-13 nut to keep the adjustment in place). Then after picking up a load the tractor wouldn't move. I popped the seat and saw that the drive belt popped off. I slipped that back on and noticed there was a ton of play in the belt but all the wheels in the pulley were spinning.

 

I continued moving sand and then I noticed the tractor was moving very slow forwards and normal speed backwards. then it stopped moving forward. Put the tractor in reverse for a few seconds and the was able to move forward. That worked for a few minutes but then the tractor started to sound bad when I changed direction, almost like a manual transmission grind. Eventually the tractor stopped moving all together. I can't even push the tractor.

 

I've checked the bevel gear box. There is no play in the shaft and seems to power the pulley just fine.

As mentioned there is a ton of play in the drive belt. I'm going to replace that but I don't think that is the main issue

 

I tried enabling the free wheeling latch on the hydro, the two pins do move freely. There were up when it was working and moved down when I pushed dow the latch. Still the tractor won't move.

 

The parking brake assembly seems non functional but as far as I can tell it's not engaged. The brake band has plenty of play around the drum.

 

I've been looking for an owners manual online but the closest I can find is one for the 900 series, seems close enough but I can't find anything to trouble shoot this issue.

 

As mentioned I just bought this tractor as was told it's in good working order. I had a small issue with the ignition and the seller was responsive when I asked what was going on. I reached out to him on this issue but haven't heard back (granted it's been less than 24 hours).

 

I suspect something is going on with the transmission or the brakes. I'd just like to get some pointers before I start taking things apart. Not to mention it's stuck in the middle of my yard right now so at a very minimum I'd like to be able to push it to the garage to do any repairs.

Here is a video of trying to engage the hydro https://imgur.com/a/A3EpO0f

 That was yesterday. I tried this morning and the engine stalled when I tried to engage the hydro.

 

Thanks

Edited by jhnstn
typo
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Welcome to the club.  

I checked the video.  

The easy fix should be the floppy belt.  It's most likely a frozen pivot bushing on the idler bracket.  Remove the bolt circled in white in this pic:

IMG_4785a.thumb.jpg.c387298524ca2b678bc070aa1f28eb4e.jpg

The bracket doesn't pivot on the bolt, it pivots on a spacer that's a bit longer than the bracket hole.  On hydro tractors most people never touch the clutch pedal so that joint freezes up with time and the belt will start to slip.  The condition can become an immediate problem if the clutch/brake pedal is depressed after a long period of non-use (the bracket doesn't return to tension the belt).  

But the hydro drive pulley appears to be turning in the video, so I don't believe the floppy belt is the movement problem.  The initial comments had me thinking low fluid level, but your later comments make me think that's not the case.  The "I tried this morning and the engine stalled when I tried to engage the hydro" is not good and not a common symptom. 

Can you push the tractor with the free-wheeling latch in the down position?  And with the free-wheel latch down, you should be able to "engage" the hydro at a low engine speed without effecting the engine - in free-wheel, the hydro fluid is bypassing and won't drive the tranny.  

Your "the tractor started to sound bad when I changed direction, almost like a manual transmission grind" makes me think it's a mechanical issue in the tranny, not the hydro.  

Also, in your video, there's a remote hydro filter seen between the side plates.  This isn't the common configuration for a 7116 tractor, but it is for a 7016 tractor.  Some pics of your tractor will confirm the series.  If it is a 7116 then it's most likely the tranny has been swapped out at some point.  

This table (and the pages that follow it) list the 7116 MFG#:

https://simpletractors.com/research/reference-info/made-when/1979-1980/

The last series made was MFG#1691382 and I believe looked like this:

   7116_0005.jpg.7e7becdaddde7d4ee13baff14dc55b0c.jpg

 

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In looking at your video, it may very well be that the idler pulley assembly is not returning all of the way to provide the proper tension on the belt, or the belt is too long.  That being said, the pulley on the pump is turning, so the hydro should work, although perhaps not well under a load.  If the pulley were not to be turning, the belt being loose would be my very first thought.  Hearing sounds like gears grinding or clashing and then a lock up of the transaxle does not sound good at all.  Now when trying to engage the trans it kills the engine tells me the pump is working and it simply is trying to move the tractor with something jammed and locked up, hence it kills the engine from plain old overload.  If the pulley on the hydro pump is turning and you can't move it, it sure sounds like a bad transaxle issue.  Were you closer, I have a rear end for you about 25 miles west of Milwaukee, WI   I'm sorry I don't have any quick easy answers as to where to begin the trouble shooting for you, it's involved.

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I would at least raise the rear of the tractor and see if I could manually turn the wheels. Push the neutral pins when you do. In the video I could see that the control was going all the way forward and reverse with the wheels not turning which would indicate that the pump is not connected to the wheels through the transmission/axle. The neutral pins should pop up immediately when you start the engine so long as the pump is turning. They are actuated by hydraulic pressure.

On that note, after many years on this earth dealing with machinery, I`ve come to not trust others to take as good of care of their stuff as I. You wouldn`t believe the garbage lube and lack of lube I`ve found in equipment that was in working condition. Any time I buy used, all fluids are checked, joints greased, and pivot points oiled. The doors on my non restored 1979 f250 do not sag, nor do they squeak.   

Edited by kwt
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@jhnstn

As mentioned above make sure the clutch idler pulley pivot is well lubed and free. Make sure the correct Simplicity belt is used. While facing the RH side of the tractor, make sure the BGB clutch pulley is rotating CW during operation.

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On 8/20/2022 at 2:46 PM, PhanDad said:

Also, in your video, there's a remote hydro filter seen between the side plates.  This isn't the common configuration for a 7116 tractor, but it is for a 7016 tractor.  Some pics of your tractor will confirm the series.  If it is a 7116 then it's most likely the tranny has been swapped out at some point.  

FYI The remote hydro filter was used on the 7100/900 tractors from1979 thru about 1981/1982.  

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Thanks for the replies. 

I was able to get the tractor out of the mud this morning. Not sure what did the trick but I :

- lifted the back tires to check if the differential was stuck. It didn't take much force to get them to turn , one forward, one backward. 

- Pressed down on the hydro freewheel latch and engaged the drive. That seemed fine, no noticeable strain on the engine. I think the engine was still warming up when it was staling out the other day. 

I then let up the hyrdo pins and notice the wheels jerk a bit while the clutch was in neutral. After that I got on and was able to move the tractor. It was still sluggish and could barely make it up a roughly 5 degree inclined on some wet grass with muddy tires. I also noticed the drive lever would pop out of forward and into neutral when there was a load on the engine.

By the time I got it on the driveway it was only creeping in forward. I shut it down as soon as I got off the mud. 

The seller finally got back to me after I posted here and thought something was wrong with the planetary gear system. I wasn't sure what he was talking about since I couldn't find anything in the manuals or parts list for the tractor that had planetary gearing. I think he was talking about the differential ( he said , off the right tire 6inch disc 1 inch thick). Either way after I got the tractor to move he suggested it just needs a hydraulic oil change. He also has a spare drive system he can give me.

I'm going to replace the belt and do the hydraulic oil change and hope that does it. I''ll post the results after I try that. 

Regarding the hydro configuration, I'm not sure what is and isn't stock on this machine. I know the seller had to replace the engine and he has mentioned something about the frame not being standard. The frame is 5/16's steel but he said they are usually only 3/16's. I'm not sure, he jumps around a lot when talking but seems like a good guy.

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1 hour ago, jhnstn said:

Regarding the hydro configuration, I'm not sure what is and isn't stock on this machine. I know the seller had to replace the engine and he has mentioned something about the frame not being standard. The frame is 5/16's steel but he said they are usually only 3/16's.

Post some pics of your tractor from various angles and our sharp eyed members will tell you if you have a mutt tractor.  (Frame thickness has varied some over the years, especially the very front of the frames where the hood attaches) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Since your tractor is a hydro, my recommendation (once you've checked to ensure the belt linkage is properly adjusted and the "clutch" linkage is fully relaxed (belt fully tight) is to never, ever, touch that pedal.  It's not a clutch like in a car - you don't want to use it to start the tractor moving.  Just leave it alone, always, and control fwd/stop/rev with the hydro control lever.

I have two hydros and I never put my foot on that pedal.

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