Slow starter, not me, the B-110

[GregB 934]

Working on the B110 loader tractor.  Starter spins way slow, barely moves.

It has the constant load of the loader pump on it also.

 

I know the clean all connections, jump to starter etc.

But the positive cable to the push switch uses a clamp style battery terminal.

I want to replace the terminal and cable,

but what gauge was the original wire?

 

If I am going to do this I want to go next size larger.

Edited January 22 by GregB

[Bill725 1,063]

If you are not using a 51R-500CCA battery it will help. I have one in my 2012 FEL tractor and do not have a problem starting. Replaced my cables with automotive cables.

[GregB 934]

Is your starting circuit using a solenoid, or push button start like mine?

 

[PhanDad 3,452]

3 hours ago, GregB said:

what gauge was the original wire?

You can use this table to determine wire gauge:

Breaking Force for Copper Wire

This estimate is based on nick-free soft annealed Cu wire having a tensile strength of 37000 pounds per square inch.

AWG gauge	Conductor Diameter Inches	Conductor Diameter mm	Conductor cross section in mm2	Ohms per 1000 ft.	Ohms per km	Maximum amps for chassis wiring	Maximum amps for power transmission	Maximum frequency for 100% skin depth for solid conductor copper	Breaking force Soft Annealed Cu 37000 PSI
0000	0.46	11.684	107	0.049	0.16072	380	302	125 Hz	6120 lbs
000	0.4096	10.40384	84.9	0.0618	0.202704	328	239	160 Hz	4860 lbs
00	0.3648	9.26592	67.4	0.0779	0.255512	283	190	200 Hz	3860 lbs
0	0.3249	8.25246	53.5	0.0983	0.322424	245	150	250 Hz	3060 lbs
1	0.2893	7.34822	42.4	0.1239	0.406392	211	119	325 Hz	2430 lbs
2	0.2576	6.54304	33.6	0.1563	0.512664	181	94	410 Hz	1930 lbs
3	0.2294	5.82676	26.7	0.197	0.64616	158	75	500 Hz	1530 lbs
4	0.2043	5.18922	21.1	0.2485	0.81508	135	60	650 Hz	1210 lbs
5	0.1819	4.62026	16.8	0.3133	1.027624	118	47	810 Hz	960 lbs
6	0.162	4.1148	13.3	0.3951	1.295928	101	37	1100 Hz	760 lbs
7	0.1443	3.66522	10.6	0.4982	1.634096	89	30	1300 Hz	605 lbs
8	0.1285	3.2639	8.37	0.6282	2.060496	73	24	1650 Hz	480 lbs
9	0.1144	2.90576	6.63	0.7921	2.598088	64	19	2050 Hz	380 lbs
10	0.1019	2.58826	5.26	0.9989	3.276392	55	15	2600 Hz	314 lbs
11	0.0907	2.30378	4.17	1.26	4.1328	47	12	3200 Hz	249 lbs
12	0.0808	2.05232	3.31	1.588	5.20864	41	9.3	4150 Hz	197 lbs
13	0.072	1.8288	2.63	2.003	6.56984	35	7.4	5300 Hz	150 lbs
14	0.0641	1.62814	2.08	2.525	8.282	32	5.9	6700 Hz	119 lbs

Above chart from:

https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

 

 

[GregB 934]

The battery cables on mine are 4 gauge, is that original?

The ends on the long one do not look like a factory crimp.

 

Edited January 23 by GregB

[Bill725 1,063]

20 hours ago, GregB said:

Is your starting circuit using a solenoid, or push button start like mine?

2012 have push button start. 

Edited January 23 by Bill725

[PhanDad 3,452]

9 hours ago, GregB said:

The battery cables on mine are 4 gauge, is that original?

The ends on the long one do not look like a factory crimp.

 

Didn't measure the gauge, but I believe my B-110 cables are originals:

 

S/G cable end:

 

To S/G side of push button switch:

 

From battery side of push button switch:

 

PS - I can measure the cable diameter tomorrow if you want.

 

[GregB 934]

Thanks for the pics.  S/G end looks like mine.

I bought new ends that I am going to crimp then solder.  Shrink tube over that.

New battery terminals also.

 

When I applied 12v right to the starter, spun pretty good.

 

[PhanDad 3,452]

2 hours ago, GregB said:

When I applied 12v right to the starter, spun pretty good.

Although it could be corrosion of the connector, I'd be suspicious of the push button switch contacts.  

As part of your "upgrades" I'd spray the switch with CRC 2-26 and "exercise" the switch while you have the S/G or battery disconnected.  

A check of the voltage at the S/G terminal while under starting load will tell if there's still too much resistance in the wiring.  

 

[GregB 934]

Should have this tomorrow

[MrSteele 482]

I know that you said "crimp, then solder". Too many folks working on electrical systems these days, crimp only. Soldering is apparently a lost art? If someone has worked on your machine before you, and that is highly likely with these old toys, somewhere wires were replaced with crimped ends. There are those who will say that crimping is fine, and works perfectly for them. I solder everything, then shrink wrap the connection. Looking for corrosion? Only have to look at the ends, because all connections in between were soldered properly, solder penetrating the wires attaching the ends, then crimped, then reheated for good measure. Takes longer, but I don't look back at connections. But, I am the guy that uses welding stinger wire for jumper cables, with the wire soldered to the clamps!