Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

17 GTH-L How to cross reference tillers


mikegyver12

Recommended Posts

mikegyver12

I have a Simplicity 17 GTH-L and I am looking for a tiller for it. It already has the lift. I see one on FB Marketplace that is 990445 tiller and it has a PTO mule. The pulley offset from center on the tiller looks close but it is only a single and my clutch PTO has two sheeves. Is there a resource for cross referencing the tiller to the machine? Thanks, Mike.

Tiller-Marketplace 990445.jpg

Mule.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the club.

In our Research forum you'll find a "what fits" topic.  Here's a link to the section on tillers:

https://simpletractors.com/research/reference-info/what-fits/rotary-tillers/

I'm thinking you have an incorrect MFG#.  I think the tiller pictured is MFG# 990455; an overview from the parts manual "Hitch" IPL:

image.png.9b7a0e60e55a521d83ee4711b6a792ca.png

I think it's a 32" tiller.  

The PO of my first 75th Ann tractor supposedly ran an old round top tiller with the double pulley idler setup:

IMG_4509a.jpg.f1bc8b6ee0ecc091f4b3cf239afe5207.jpg

IMG_4510a.jpg.0660bc0f2fae8fa8fe018e11bad8abe6.jpg

Others have said the idlers interfere with the seat deck on a "7100" series tractor.  I never tried to mount the tiller on the 75th.  Since the "990455" fits on the 3300 series RBTs, I think it should fit.  3300 RBTs didn't have a cone clutch, but used a regular V pulley on the BGB shaft to drive rear attachments:

 IMG_0044a.JPG.94dc9b7eced3760fd236d470619a3e74.JPG

As seen above, the deck is driven by the inner pulley; the outer pulley is for rear attachments.  Your GTH-L has the cone clutch with both pulleys built in.  

So... it should work, but not the best match IMO.  If priced right, it could be worth a shot.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

mikegyver12

That is extremely helpful. I will check with the seller to verify the number and width. Thanks a bunch!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The old style tiller PTO may work with a Vickers hydro, but it will not work with a Sunstrand hydro and the 17 GTH-L has a Sunstrand.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those  early FDT tillers work with tractors which do not have a cone clutch, so 3300 series or earlier. Most of them don't have a long enough engagement rod for the long wheel base tractors. They stopped making them around 1968 and began offering the 36" tiller around 1969 when all the tractors had the long wheel base. The drive pulley on the cone clutch is almost twice the diameter of the pulley used for these early tillers and will have a negative effect on the speed of the tiller. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

mikegyver12

First of all.. thanks for all the input. This group is priceless. I bought the tiller. Paid $250 and came with a "mule" clutch for the original FTD set up.  I'm 99% sure it's a 990455 - 32" tiller as Phandad suggested.

The attachment shaft and hitch fit fine on my 17 GTH-L with some tapping and prying to line up the holes on the mount (you guys know the routine). 

I will have to do some work to get the pulleys to line up. As Bill725 suggested the filter on the hydro lift may be a bit of an obstacle for the belt routing. The tine speed will be high due to larger drive pulley size on my machine, but that's the least of my worries at this point. 

I've got some ideas and I feel fairly confident (famous last words) I will get it to smash some dirt eventually. I'll keep this thread updated as I proceed. 

tiller-simplicity-hitch.jpg

 

tiller-simplicity-pulley2.jpg

Edited by mikegyver12
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,

I have an Allis 919 and i do run a 32 inch tiller on it.  I bought it with the tiller mounted.  

The 919 has the cone clutch so I don't use the clutch on the mule drive.  To me it seems like the tiller runs a bit slow, not fast, with my application.  The only interference I find is with the mule clutch engage lever.  When it is engaged it did want to rub the seat pan so I did a bit of adjustment on the lever, bending it sideways until it clears.  Otherwise it works ok.  The 32 inch width will just barely cover the rear tire tracks on mine so you might find a partial tire track after tilling here and there. Here are a few pics of mine.  I had to rebuild mine so the pics with the good paint are after rebuild. 

Steve

 

thumbnail_IMG_1614.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1615.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1622.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1623.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1670.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1671.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1672.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1673.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1676.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1699.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_1700.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/23/2023 at 1:08 PM, mikegyver12 said:

the filter on the hydro lift may be a bit of an obstacle for the belt routing.

When the Sundstrand hydro was switched from a remote filter setup (between the side plates in front of the tranny) to the side mount filter, a "Rear PTO Drive Kit" was used to keep the belt away from the filter: 

image.thumb.png.07685bf2f72e595f53ce8cd77d687cb2.png

IMG_3357a.jpg.bb2774922c7458e29d5e1c1793c99b4b.jpg

NOTE: The kit was designed for the "newer" tillers; I'm not sure if it will be of any help for your setup.

I also put a large SS hose clamp around the filter where the belt might rub:

IMG_9318.thumb.JPG.0c05166e725684b809f82c1b6279d782.JPG  

I think the dimensions of the bracket are in a post, but I can't find it ATM.  

Also the belt has been known to spin the hydro filter off, but I don't remember the details - @Brettw would remember. 

 

Edited by PhanDad
Added pic
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

mikegyver12
5 hours ago, PhanDad said:

spin the hydro filter off,

The thought has crossed my mind LOL. I kinda like the hose clamp idea.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

mikegyver12
5 hours ago, steve-wis said:

I had to rebuild mine so the pics with the good paint are after rebuild.

More great tips. Thanks so much. Nice looking set up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Also the belt has been known to spin the hydro filter off, but I don't remember the details - @Brettw would remember. 

Ouch.  That was a while back, but I never had that problem again!&:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
mikegyver12

Just to summarize how this ended... I bought the tiller. The large pulley on the mule drive did indeed have a significant interference with the hydro filter. My solution was to move the filter.

I purchased a "spin on" adapter made by Trans-Dapt (Trans-Dapt Performance 1413 Oil By-Pass Adapter) off Amazon. I then bought a Hydraulic Spin-on Filter Head fron Grainger to serve as a home for the now remote filter. I put brass 3/8 NPT street elbows with 3/8 barb fittings on the filter head to steer the lines in the right direction.

I added 3/8 ID x 1/2 NPT barbs to the by-pass adapter and two 3/8 ID rubber transmission lines from Autozone with a couple of hose clamps.

After much research I bought a WIX 51348 lube filter and spun it on the filter head. I struggled with selecting the best filter to replace the 1671234SM standard filter. I went with the 51348 because it has similar micron rating 21 vs 25 and the envelope size fit the area I had to work with. Any taller and it would come closer to the tire than I was comfortable with.

Topped off with transmission fluid fired it up and everything held with no leaks (yay!).

I ended up buying custom belts for this application. I got them at Grainger as well. I used a 5L450 to go between the mule drive and the tiller and a 5L640 to go from PTO to mule.

I took it for a test drive and when I sat on the seat the idler pulley on the mule rubbed the seat pan and made a horrible noise. Thought it was bearings but ended up just the pulley against the pan.  Simply removed the idler (wasn't really necessary). 

It was an exciting project. Lots of ups and downs but so far everything is working well. I did a little tilling (about an hour) yesterday and had no issues. I'll update if I have any issues down the road.

IMG_7020.jpg

IMG_7024.jpg

IMG_7034.jpg

Hydro Filter Head.jpg

IMG_7022.jpg

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm curious about the mule large pulley interference or lack there of.  

In the pics above, I believe I can see the interference.

@steve-wis, how about posting some pics of your AC 919/tiller belt routing.  I would think the AC919 has the side mounted hydro filter so the large diameter mule pulley should also interfere.  Unless there are more than one FDT mules with a different diameter large pulley.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Just a quick after "season" update. I just completed the Fall tilling this morning and I am pleased to report that I haven't had any issues related to the hydraulic filter relocation. The filter did get some dirt on it but otherwise no functional problems. No interference with the belt or leakage. All hydraulics seemed to operate fine.

Regarding the pulley ratios I think it is fair to say that the tines are moving too fast under "normal" operating engine speeds. My solution is simply to idle the tractor down to 2000-2400 RPM when I drop the tiller into the soil and the tine RPM is reasonable at that speed. There is plenty of torque with the Kohler 17 twin engine to run at this RPM so no real down side (plus the engine noise is reduced). Wheel speed is also fine at this engine speed.

Obviously my first choice would have been to buy a used tiller attachment matched up with the tractor. That said, given the unavailability of a good used tiller at the time, it was worth the effort to make it this older one fit.

IMG_7780.jpg

IMG_7781_cropped.jpg

IMG_7783.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...