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Simplicity zero turn 1694455 50" Deck belt 5023255, breaking v belts.


colincox1

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Hi, everyone long time no see. Just wondered if someone could offer some wisdom on a zero turn  (details in description) which just keeps breaking the deck belt to the clutch, sometimes in less than a few hours and sometimes in about 15 hours. Used the correct simplicity ones, tried Gates, just nothing seems to survive.   Please help. 

Very best regards Colin 

Edited by colincox1
PS, All deck bearings have been replaced And idler pullers all good bearings, and spacers in correct positions to ensure alignment.
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 The first thing I look for in a situation like that is to make sure the belt rides in the center of idler pulleys. I don't know your machine, But when you next install a new belt, turn the belt and make sure it doesn't ride up onto the flanges of the flat idler and that the belt enters any v idler as straight as possible.

 Does it break on start up? Or while mowing most of the time ?

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Tar heel, thx for the prompt reply.

On start up usually after I shut it of to pick up a stick or something and then restart,  then snap. I have checked and tried replacing bushings and reshiming the idler pulleys and eyeballing the deck belt as best I can.

 

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Ok, I know you said you use Simplicity belts. There are two basic V- belt types. Rubber and cloth wrapped. Rubber grabs and can put a huge shock load on its self on start up (more so with an electric PTO clutch). If I were having this trouble, I would find Kevlar belts that are cloth wrapped. I have had good luck so far with D&D belts off Amazon. Rural King in my area seems to keep a good supply of Kevlar belts at a pretty good price.

 Good luck with it. I know what a pain such a problem can be. To both the person and the billfold !

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Had a 20/50 Champion once. It ate  the expensive simplicity pto belts too. Think I went to a blue kevlar farm store belt. Problem was that they did not go up to the length used by Simplicity for the application . Was an inch or so short. Made it hard to get on,  not sure what added stresses that put on the bearings, but it quit eating belts with that switch.

Edited by SmilinSam
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Ronald Hribar

Does Simplicity have their own belt now?

or is it being substituted for?

I have my doubts on some of the Simplicity belts I have purchased lately

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2 hours ago, Ronald Hribar said:

Does Simplicity have their own belt now?

or is it being substituted for?

I have my doubts on some of the Simplicity belts I have purchased lately

I believe they have been and are still supplied by Gates who moved much of their smaller belt production to Mexico maybe 10 years ago. 

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Chris, That is a good question, thank you, I should have included that.

Clutch engaged at Full throttle 

My understanding is if the mower has electric clutch, ie which is engaged by an electric circuit creating a magnetic field. (Please I an not being an a..hole just want to be sure we are not talking at cross purposes). It is also my understanding that some of our mowers' clutches are belt operated clutches for which there could be different recommendations. 

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Big thanks to you all.

Some thoughts for me to work with. 

I am 

Using cloth wrapped, 

am I correct in saying,  (I think I rembered reading somewhere, that simplicity belts had some odd/different/non standard angles on the v of the belt?  Comments please. 

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22 minutes ago, colincox1 said:

think I remembered reading somewhere, that simplicity belts had some odd/different/non standard angles on the v of the belt? 

You remember correctly.

Most of the belts on the Simplicity tractors and attachments have an "HA" profile that's 3/64" less high than a standard "1/2" V belt.  

 Belt_Xsection.thumb.JPG.36eed1eada3fc747719df54ebb419e6e.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, colincox1 said:

Chris, That is a good question, thank you, I should have included that.

Clutch engaged at Full throttle 

My understanding is if the mower has electric clutch, ie which is engaged by an electric circuit creating a magnetic field. (Please I an not being an a..hole just want to be sure we are not talking at cross purposes). It is also my understanding that some of our mowers' clutches are belt operated clutches for which there could be different recommendations. 

https://ogura-clutch.com/featured_product_pto.php?type=5#:~:text=The best speed to engage the PTO clutch is always,smooth engagement for the machine.

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I was always told to engage the clutch at the slowest possible rpm. There is less of a shock to both the clutch and the belt. Once the clutch was engaged then increase the engine rpm to the maximum. As a general rule air cooled motors cool best at full throttle. I also made sure there was no load on the attachment. So if engaging the mower deck that was done on the driveway before cutting the lawn. The snowblower was done in the garage with no snow in the auger. 

Try engaging the clutch at a slow speed  

Rick

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Paul M.Murphy

This may be irrevelant but I obtained good belts from Princess Auto. We have one in New Brunswick Canada and I must say quite a selecton. . They have over 12,200 products .

here is the web site princessauto.com. They might be able to assist you . They also have a 600 page catalogue.

Paul

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32 minutes ago, Paul M.Murphy said:

This may be irrevelant but I obtained good belts from Princess Auto. We have one in New Brunswick Canada and I must say quite a selecton. . They have over 12,200 products .

here is the web site princessauto.com. They might be able to assist you . They also have a 600 page catalogue.

Paul

Paul thank you, 

 

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On 6/23/2023 at 8:27 PM, Tarheel said:

Ok, I know you said you use Simplicity belts. There are two basic V- belt types. Rubber and cloth wrapped. Rubber grabs and can put a huge shock load on its self on start up (more so with an electric PTO clutch). If I were having this trouble, I would find Kevlar belts that are cloth wrapped. I have had good luck so far with D&D belts off Amazon. Rural King in my area seems to keep a good supply of Kevlar belts at a pretty good price.

 Good luck with it. I know what a pain such a problem can be. To both the person and the billfold !

Thank you very much..

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6 hours ago, RickS said:

I was always told to engage the clutch at the slowest possible rpm. There is less of a shock to both the clutch and the belt. Once the clutch was engaged then increase the engine rpm to the maximum. As a general rule air cooled motors cool best at full throttle. I also made sure there was no load on the attachment. So if engaging the mower deck that was done on the driveway before cutting the lawn. The snowblower was done in the garage with no snow in the auger. 

Try engaging the clutch at a slow speed  

Rick

Yes, I think I will, I always thought it was wrong, engagement at full throttle.    When I was asked to do some mowing for a school they used 5000 and 6000 series Toro z master with  72" decks I was told in no uncertain terms NEVER engage the deck blade at any setting other that at FULL Throttle.  And we never had any problems,  but the other mowing person jumped the belts off many times, and in doing so when the belts came off there were often splits in the narrow edge of the v belts, (he used to start the deck with various engine speeds. I forgot one time and it broke the belt, however I had used the belt for probably around 300hrs.  That all said, the article from the clutch manufacturer, seems compelling to me. 

PS I bought one of the mowers off the school, and I normally engage blades at about just over half throttle,  and all is good. 

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10 hours ago, Chris727 said:

Yes, that seems to be very compelling.  I am going to absolutely check the belt is running true especially on the back side of belt pulleys , and I am going to get new wrapped kevlar belt and engage the clutch 

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I can think of no...zero...reason to engage a belt clutch (electric or mechanical) at anything above an idle, maybe high idle. I can't imagine how doing so would cause a problem. It sure saves a lot of shock loading to the drive train. If you still break belts, check the idler spring tension and make sure it isn't really tight.

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I agree with you re engaging clutch. 

Interesting thought about the spring tension, thank you

 

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I shake my head when I hear my neighbors engage and disengage the electric clutch several times during a mowing at full throttle.

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1 hour ago, Bill725 said:

I shake my head when I hear my neighbors engage and disengage the electric clutch several times during a mowing at full throttle.

That happens routinely whenever my neighbor backs his tractor up - a "safety" feature that can be disabled on some tractors.  

 

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I also shake my head and LOL when I am at a stop sign and the vehicle's engine next to me has been shut off to save a teaspoon of gas and restarts. How much money do you save in gas compared to replacing a starter early.

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If your car has this you have to hit the off button everytime you start the engine. To me it's a pain in the behind because I think the wear and tear on the starter is more expensive.

 

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