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Help! re-power wiring - Kohler K301 to Briggs Vanguard


Tcorm

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Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of completing a rewiring for a 7012H that was wired for a Kohler K301.  I'm switching in a Briggs Vanguard 356447 from Small Engine warehouse.  It is supposed to be "plug and play", but the PO did a job on my wiring, so that's not helping.

From the Vanguard, I have a starter solenoid wire I hooked up to the positive starter lead.  Then, there is a battery charge wire and a 12 volt power source. 

On the key switch - I kept the original (S) starter wire to the PTO switches (then to solenoid, I believe).  (B) Battery terminal still goes to + on ammeter.  (A) Accessory position does not change. (I) Ignition terminal is connected to engine 12 volt power (source) wire.  (R) Battery charge wire from engine is connected to switch terminal Rectifier.

I have a white wire that I'm not sure of.  It is part of the tractor wiring, but not connected to the key switch.  It originally ran to the K301 engine from inside the dash.  Maybe part of the charging system, because it too is connected to the battery charge wire from the Vanguard.

I was able to get to the point of getting the engine to start and run through the ignition key switch.  My problem is the engine doesn't turn off when I switch the key to the off position.  Also, in this configuration, I'm not sure the battery was charging.

Do I need an additional kill wire?  Moving from the Kohler to the Briggs - do I need a different key switch or rewire at the switch? 

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

TC

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The Kohler was a battery powered ignition system versus the Briggs having a magneto ignition. The existing ignition switch will not ground the mag to shut off the engine because on the battery ignition system the engine is shut off by cutting off the supply of battery power to the engine ignition system. You need a different ignition switch. 

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Thanks for the reply, Chris727.  I know electrical issues for "Dummies" aren't the easiest questions to answer.

I thought the switch might be part of the problem.

I do have a switch from a parts 7014S that was wired for a Briggs cast iron 326437.

According to the schematic, it is: Ground, Battery, Magneto, Starter, Accessory.

Would that work?  If so, what would the wiring configuration be?  

The differences I see in the Kohler wiring switch is - Ignition goes to coil and on the (326437) Briggs, Magneto on switch goes to Magneto on engine.  Also, DC on the Kohler goes to Rectifier on the switch and DC on the Briggs goes to ammeter + and then Battery on the switch.  Not sure if that's it.  Also, not sure if these are the differences necessary for the vanguard.  Also, the schematic has no indication of a wire from the Ground on the switch - possibly the switch itself is grounded to the panel?

Thanks,

TC

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1 hour ago, Tcorm said:

I do have a switch from a parts 7014S that was wired for a Briggs cast iron 326437.

According to the schematic, it is: Ground, Battery, Magneto, Starter, Accessory.

Would that work?  If so, what would the wiring configuration be?  

That switch will work.  

A typical wiring diagram for a magneto ignition 7000 series tractor:

image.png.0a2c1be217305c24ecf1b632d7d5516f.png

You could use the white wire to be the magneto kill wire. You don't mention a connection on your Vanguard, but it must have one somewhere.  

In the above diagram, the bold wire is the kill wire.  It goes from the M terminal of the key switch to the engine kill wire (In the above pic the wire goes to the "points box" which is where the kill wire was attached to the engine kill wire).  

 

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5 hours ago, Tcorm said:

I have a white wire that I'm not sure of.  It is part of the tractor wiring, but not connected to the key switch.  It originally ran to the K301 engine from inside the dash.  Maybe part of the charging system, because it too is connected to the battery charge wire from the Vanguard.

Just re-read your post and noticed the above comment about the white wire.  It was common for a Kohler engine to have both the Battery wire and the kill wire in a 2 connector disconnect at the engine.  

You should disconnect it from "battery charge wire from the Vanguard" even if you don't re-purpose the white wire.  You don't want an unused hot wire laying around in the tractor to potentially short out and maybe do some damage.    

 

Edited by PhanDad
Added 2 wire connector statement
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10 hours ago, Tcorm said:

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of completing a rewiring for a 7012H that was wired for a Kohler K301.  I'm switching in a Briggs Vanguard 356447 from Small Engine warehouse.  It is supposed to be "plug and play", but the PO did a job on my wiring, so that's not helping.

From the Vanguard, I have a starter solenoid wire I hooked up to the positive starter lead.  Then, there is a battery charge wire and a 12 volt power source. 

On the key switch - I kept the original (S) starter wire to the PTO switches (then to solenoid, I believe).  (B) Battery terminal still goes to + on ammeter.  (A) Accessory position does not change. (I) Ignition terminal is connected to engine 12 volt power (source) wire.  (R) Battery charge wire from engine is connected to switch terminal Rectifier.

I have a white wire that I'm not sure of.  It is part of the tractor wiring, but not connected to the key switch.  It originally ran to the K301 engine from inside the dash.  Maybe part of the charging system, because it too is connected to the battery charge wire from the Vanguard.

I was able to get to the point of getting the engine to start and run through the ignition key switch.  My problem is the engine doesn't turn off when I switch the key to the off position.  Also, in this configuration, I'm not sure the battery was charging.

Do I need an additional kill wire?  Moving from the Kohler to the Briggs - do I need a different key switch or rewire at the switch? 

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

TC

I ran a separate kill switch on mine and it also serves to protect any possible backfeed on electronic components. 

Hope this helps

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Ronald Hribar

I have found that if you use the wire that feed the Kohler ignition to power the fuel shut off solenoid on the Vanguard.

you do not have to hook up to the Vanguard ignition system

shut the key off. The tractor runs out of gas

similiar to diesel shut off system

even starts better too

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A few years ago I put a Vanguard kit from SEW in my 7117.  The kit came with an engine mounting / spacer plate, driveshaft adapter, and a relay so that you would not have to change the ignition switch.  My engine did not have a fuel solenoid but did have a starter solenoid mounted on the starter.  The recommendation from my local engine mechanic was "keep it simple" and do not have more solenoids than you need.  I eliminated the factory starter solenoid under the dash and used the one mounted on the starter. I also changed the ignition switch so that the extra run solenoid would not be needed.  As my Vanguard had been intended as a generator engine, it seems like I had to change the mounting point for the governor spring per the Vanguard shop manual and set the maximum engine rpm.  I am happy with the engine but after every mowing need to clean the flywheel air inlet screen as it get covered with grass limiting the cooling air inlet since the Simplicity mower design pulls air from above the deck.  

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Ronald Hribar

On a recent repower.

I found the safeties ran thru the dash mounted stater solenoid.

I left that solenoid in place.

And had that solenoid feed solenoid on starter

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On mine, the two safety switches were in series on the power wire going to the solenoid.  I just moved that power wire to the Vanguard starter solenoid.  

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