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Battery blues


krt

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My Sovereign 7118 with a kohler commander 18hp. with new cables, start solenoid and battery to this day is hit or miss if the battery will have enough***to crank it over. Its normal to have to click it multiple times to get t to crank over. Even with a new battery it's hit or miss if it will crank over in cold or warm weather. Haven't been able to find a battery with more cranking power. What is everyone using. 

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SmilinSam

 

 

 

Probably not the battery. Probably a voltage drop through the safety circuits resulting in bad connection for the solenoid to engage.

 Theres a relay fix alot of our members use to remedy this. Same sort of rely setup used on newer machines than yours. 

 Someone will probably come in on this and post a link to the right topic in here, or you can do a search typing in relay. Lots of relevant pages on the subject

Edited by SmilinSam
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I personally haven’t had this issue with either of my Command powered Sovereigns but I understand it is somewhat common. There are 2 solenoids used in series to crank the Command, a dash mounted solenoid and a starter mounted solenoid.  An easy way to check the starter mounted solenoid is to apply +12V directly to the starter mounted solenoid "control input" (orange hi-lighted wire in the diagram below) using a jumper cable directly from the battery.  If the engine cranks, the issue is with the dash mounted item, the solenoid or possibly the ignition switch.  

 
I throughly cleaned and “CRC’ed”  all of the tractor wiring connections when I acquired the tractors.  This included the ignition and light switches, the dash mounted solenoid and  all of the safety circuit and other “Start” circuit wiring connections as shown in this wiring diagram:

Command_Cranking_Wirec.JPG.096664699be1296290d505b876cd66da.JPG

Note all of the safeties are on the ground side of the dash mounted solenoid.  There are many connections to get dirty or corrode and cause voltage lost that makes solenoid engagement iffy. 

First check would be to see if good voltage is getting to both input sides of the dash mounted solenoid (green highlighted wires).

A voltage check (under load) at the starter solenoid control input terminal could be made.  It should be very close to voltage measured at the battery terminal.  I suspect it won't. 

Then onto the blue high-lighted wires:  

the hydro lever safety switch 

the cone clutch safety switch 

the seat safety switch

Notice some of the connections are to the interlock module, so those connections should also be cleaned/CRC'ed.  

The ground connection from the interlock module to the frame is probably OK since you didn't mention an engine shutoff issue.  

After all connections are cleaned, a check to ground from the dash mounted solenoid control output terminal path should show basically zero resistance.  If not, there's an issue with a wire somewhere in the circuit.  
 

Note - I initially started this response from memory, then I rewrote much of it after checking the wiring diagram

Edited by PhanDad
Basically a rewrite
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Additional relay install posts @SmilinSam mentioned in his above posts:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/65641-command-starter-relay-kit/

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/67524-agco-1920h-ch20-wiring-help/

In the second post, a low voltage at the engine mounted solenoid is mentioned.  Never heard what caused it.  

The relay used in the kit (or make your own "kit") must function with a "low" voltage from the dash mounted solenoid.  The Legacy wiring is much more complex compared to the Sovereign.  My preference is to find the cause of the low voltage at the engine solenoid. 

 

3 hours ago, krt said:

new ... start solenoid

 I'm curious, which solenoid did you replace?

 

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I can’t help with your issue. But my 728 Broadmotor seems to have the same issue. I can’t leave the battery in it overnight because it’ll be dead next day. Heck it won’t even charge while sitting the connected to the cables (it drains that fast). Certainly something is pulling power but I have yet to find out “what”. Wish you luck in figuring out your problem.

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On 2/11/2024 at 10:50 AM, krt said:

What is everyone using. 

I use a automotive battery group 51R with 500 CCA. Plenty of CCAs. Squeeze the battery bottom with the hold down clamp. If your tractor has the interlock module, that maybe your issue.

Edited by Bill725
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48 minutes ago, Bill725 said:

I use a automotive battery group 51R with 500 CCA. Plenty of CCAs. Squeeze the battery bottom with the hold down clamp. If your tractor has the interlock module, that maybe your issue.

Thats the battery I use. Will cost you over $100 now at the cheapest place but I've had good luck and I utilize battery maintainers I get off Amazon for $15-$30 to keep them fresh.

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Hello, Does the valve adjustment   make a difference ?

The compression release is related to the valve adjustment . 

Not knowing how many Hours are on this tractor , It may be time for a valve adjustment ?

Thanks Ken in Mi

 

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8 hours ago, maxwood said:

Hello, Does the valve adjustment   make a difference ?

The compression release is related to the valve adjustment . 

Not knowing how many Hours are on this tractor , It may be time for a valve adjustment ?

Thanks Ken in Mi

 

Command's have non-adjustable hydraulic lifters. 

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13 minutes ago, Chris727 said:

Command's have non-adjustable hydraulic lifters. 

And no compression release.

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Hello, Never have I had a Command .  The Briggs have valve Adjustments

Thanks for educating Me.

 

Thanks Ken in Mi

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FYI, Command starters rarely go bad but the starter solenoid does.

Edited by Bill725
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7 hours ago, the summoner666 said:

We have the same issue on later Cyclops, 1863, 1864, 2284, series Cub Cadets.

John Deere and Kubota also have had the same issue.   I put the John Deere relay kit into my Kubota B2400, simple plug in relay, find a place to mount it with a ground, and never had a problem since.   I think it cost less than $15, about 10 years ago.

Edited by MikeES
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