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Homelite T-16H No spark after finally getting to try my tractor out for the first time


Gilmer

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Pretty bummed out and need help again.  I have a 74 T-16H, been refurbishing it for a couple of months and finally attempted to start it today. New wiring harness and ignition module are my only 2 new components to this issue, however I am not getting any spark. I am attaching a couple of pics to show the setup I'm using. The ignition module is grounded to negative ground side and the other terminal is connected to the white wire (going to switch) and black wire (going to magneto coil)  any help on testing these components would be appreciated 20240331_183801.thumb.jpg.97582069f93661872dea21b5c390c5ba.jpg20240331_183821.thumb.jpg.c59dd652d0bdf16b563313245fd0e2a4.jpg20240331_183839.thumb.jpg.d05c8ed31980c3e1fd5f70270459e744.jpg

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Update on testing components. I have good continuity from the negative ground terminal of the module to anywhere on the block, I also have good continuity from the white/black wire terminal (magneto black/ignition switch white) to ground. Not sure if this should like this or not, but that's my result

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Chris727

I  never had any luck with those units, personally. You have to have a good coil for it to work. Has it ever run for you? Did you try running with points first?

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Yes it started once with starter fluid before the project began but only for about 20 seconds because it wasn't getting gas (before anything was done or ignition module was added), I installed the ignition module because the condenser was bypassed

20240301_121942.jpg

20240301_121947.jpg

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SmilinSam

Whats the instructions for the module say as to reversing the wiring connection? 

 

The brand I use has a blue and white wire coming out of it. Says  if it doesn work the way they have you wire it to start , to reverse the wires.  Dont do this unless your instructions suggest it.

Edited by SmilinSam
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It doesn't have any troubleshooting instructions, only installation instructions showing the hookup for a negative ground or a positive ground. I have it hooked up for the negative ground

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I tried one of them once and it didn't work so I put a coil on it and it runs great

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SmilinSam
12 hours ago, Gilmer said:

It doesn't have any troubleshooting instructions, only installation instructions showing the hookup for a negative ground or a positive ground. I have it hooked up for the negative ground

The instruction sheet I have is for "megafire " modules. It says if no spark , reverse the polarity(switch the wires) and test again. I have done this also with the much older "power start" modules  when an engine wouldnt spark the first way. Both Power start and megafire are two wire modules.

I am assuming yours is that same sort of thing, but since your instructions say nothing about swapping the configuration the decision to try it would have to be your responsisbility. I dont know idf reversing the wires hurt the module any or not...but I dont think so. Maybe someone else will chime in with more knowledge than me.

 

Like Chris said above, your engine coil needs to be good to begin with or the modules wont work. They dont like non working or weak coils.

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Just a thought, is there any possibility you have the kill circuit grounding out?  I might try to disconnect the kill wire and see if that makes any difference.  Sometimes, in the rewire process, a few things can get crossed up. (don't ask me how I know this)

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Ok good ideas, I'm not sure how to test the coil but I'll try to look it up and also, I have no clue what the kill wire  is. Could you help me out with determining which is the kill wire? When I made the wiring harness  I used the same colors as original

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SmilinSam

Kill wire usually comes from the Keyswitch ( "M" - magneto tab on older switches) and grounds the ignition coil out when the key is in the off position.

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I'm currently testing the coil. I pulled the motor and removed the coil from the bracket. I am getting about 1.4ohms from the black wire to the coil body but getting nothing from sparkplug wire to the coil body. Is this the proper way to test it or do any of you smart fellars have any other methods? Thanks in advance

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PhanDad

The white wire circled in red is the kill wire @SmilinSam described above:

T16_WireOnlyc.jpg.156eb444dc2388ab152ac2b91d62ae70.jpg

There are usually 2 wires (black) that run to the primary side of the ignition coil - one from the points (or external electronic module in your case) and the other one that's attached to the kill wire from the ignition switch at the points cover insulated tab.  If either of those wires is chaffed and touching engine tin, etc the coil won't fire.  

I can't help with "good" resistance values.  

 

 

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It appears that one of the black wires isn't there, I just have one black wire coming from the primary tab of the coil to the points cover (module in my case) and I tied it to the white kill wire. Not sure if that's a problem, but I'm fairly certain the coil is bad since I have no continuity from the coil pole to the sparkplug wire. I can't find the motor stamp anywhere on the motor but I'm assuming it's 326431 from my research. So I'm searching for a coil for that motor

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Bill725

B&S cast iron 16HP is Model 326431. Armature used with points is B&S P/N 298968, NLA. Will have to replace with aftermarket Stens 460-006 or Rotary 1778.

Or you could change to the Magnetron (electronic) armature, B&S P/N 398811, but have to repolarize the flywheel magnet. If you want to repolarize the flywheel call Roger Gast at 262-835-4515.

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Ok. I think I'd rather not repolarize thr flywheel just because I have no experience with this. I ordered a coil from ebay, but now I'm concerned that it isn't correct. I'll post a pic of it with this post and order one of the ones you suggested if need be. Thank you for your help

Screenshot_20240401_184532_Samsung Internet.jpg

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Chris727

I have been debating about this on my HB-212. It lost spark a few years ago. I was going to have a flywheel repolarized and install a 398811 coil (Magnetron, solid-state). Briggs changed coil vendors several years ago and it was my understanding that the new version of the 398811 no longer required repolarization. I watched a Taryl Fixes All video about it and it seemed that while they would run, they required adjustment of the timing (adjust the mag mounting bracket position) to get them dialed in just right. That made me think I'd be better just to get an older NOS 398811 and have the flywheel repolarized because adjusting the timing is kind of a pain. At one time not long ago, B&S would reploarize a flywheel for free it you ship it to them. Now I'm not sure that Briggs will even do it anymore as the new coils aren't supposed to require it. I'm probably just going to put a new points-type coil on it and forget the Magnetron conversion. 

I believe this was the video:

 

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Interesting video,  I'm assuming that the coil I ordered (pic above) is for the points condenser (or electronic module like I have).  I'm debating on ordering a steps 460-006 also just incase I ordered the wrong thing 

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Chris727
15 minutes ago, Gilmer said:

Interesting video,  I'm assuming that the coil I ordered (pic above) is for the points condenser (or electronic module like I have).  I'm debating on ordering a steps 460-006 also just incase I ordered the wrong thing 

Yours looks like a Magnetron/solid state. The points coils look totally different. 

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Ok. Thanks. I'm not sure what to do then, try it, then flip it and go from there

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PhanDad

I believe these are Briggs OEM coils, Magneton on left, "points" coil on right:

NewLeft_OldRight1.thumb.jpg.58f743501dcde35c8a57b2668ab0a307.jpg

The "lump" on the left side of the Magneton coil is the sensing unit I believe.  

 

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You guys are awesome,  thank you so much for your help.  The coil I have currently ((that I believe to be faulty) is definitely a magnetron coil then. So now I'm wondering if when the new one comes in, if its basically plug and play or do I need to adjust the position of it while testing for spark?

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PhanDad

Just a thought -

Since there was only one wire to the coil and you had spark before you added the external ignition module. 
Maybe the second wire was removed when the engine was converted to Magnetron ignition and the remaining wire was the kill wire. 
So as currently wired you have 2 electronic triggers in the circuit and that sounds like a problem for proper operation. 
 

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Hmm never thought of that.  This is confusing me more now lol. To me it appears that both black wires of the coil (from factory) terminate in the same place (crimp terminal fitting) on the coil itself. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm just going by how it looks when I pulled the wire from the coil.

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Bill725

Hold a compass against the flywheel magnet. If it attracts the north pole, it is a points flywheel, If it attracts the south pole, it is a Magnetron flywheel.

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