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HELP! T-16 gearbox shift lever not engaging.


Gilmer

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Been working my T-16H pretty hard this week and today under no stress or load, hurt a "pop" and tranny would go forward or reverse. I can push the tractor whether the gearbox lever is engaged or not. Jacked up the rear end and put it in forward and reverse and the tires barely turn and I can stop them by hand. Figured I'd ask before tearing into anything. I've tried moving the tires by hand and shifting the gearbox lever in both directions already both on the ground and Jacked up.  Thanks in advance. Oh btw, my stove, washer and now dryer have all went out this week,  so what else!!!

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PhanDad

Although usually something happens under load, it might be the dreaded axle tube failure.  My T-12 broke one when pushing snow.  

With the rear of the tractor jacked up, turn one of the wheels; the axle tube should turn on both side.  If it doesn't, it's broke.  Mine failed at the keyway inside the Tranny.  

IMG_0152.thumb.JPG.c0d6f7003c91da42acfc994f5389b742.JPG

IMG_0153.thumb.JPG.69d2045707524452311e084414dbde4e.JPG

 

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Ok, I'll check tomorrow as I'm not with the tractor at the moment.  I do know that with the rear end jacked up and if I turn one wheel  by hand, they both turn. But I'll check the tube first thing 

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Gilmer

Ok, so the longer tube turns when shift engagement lever is in neutral, and differential side tube also turns until I grab it with my hand and then it doesn't turn but the entire axle does. When the engagement lever is in drive, I can't turn the longer tube. When started and in gear, the longer tube turns and I can not stop it by hand, but the differential side turns when started and in gear but I can stop it by hand. So I'm assuming this is a big problem but I can't wrap my head around the tube driving the axle. I've looked at drawings but still am a bit confused.  Where should I start and what side to I start disassembling? Thanks..... btw this testing was done with tires off and rear end jacked up

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PhanDad
2 hours ago, Gilmer said:

I can't wrap my head around the tube driving the axle. I've looked at drawings but still am a bit confused.

I'm far from an expert on this subject and I agree, the tranny drive system isn't easy to understand.  So I'll try to explain it.  And if I get it wrong, hopefully someone will correct me. 

The hydro motor turns the axle tube via a gear train in the tranny.  Your tube isn't broken so the issue is with external keys.  The pics I posted above show the differential carrier attached to the axle tube (via 2 keys); I doubt those keys are the issue.  So the issue is probably in the differential. 

This this post for my description of finding the differential keys: 

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/64456-axle-tubes-and-ag-tires/

 

And for an even more detailed description and pics see the axle tube replacement DIY in the Downloads forum:

 

https://simpletractors.com/files/file/316-axle-tube-replacement-do-it-yourself/

 

 

 

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Gilmer

Thank you again for the rescue. I hope I can help you out one day in return. I will work on this, this weekend and reply with the results. Thanks again!

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Gilmer

Axle tube is definitely broken about where yours broke according to your pic. Now I'm gonna try to find one or weld this one back together 

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Gilmer
Posted (edited)

Mine broke where the circlip was on the differential side, however it doesn't appear that a keyway was there......correction the keyway on mine is after the circlip

Edited by Gilmer
Correction
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PhanDad
17 hours ago, Gilmer said:

Now I'm gonna try to find one or weld this one back together

Not easy to find now and if new $$$.

Suggest finding a low cost Simplicity 3310 or 14H or 3410,15, or 16H with good Vickers tranny.  Many other mechanical parts are the same (BGB , although cross shafts are different they're still usable on your AC Hommie).

17 hours ago, Gilmer said:

Mine broke where the circlip was on the differential side, however it doesn't appear that a keyway was there......correction the keyway on mine is after the circlip

Yep, same place mine broke:

IMG_0874.thumb.JPG.01ddd50e85df5f79018ca6db8ad63f72.JPG

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Gilmer

Ok thanks, I'll be searching for a used tranny. I welded mine and machined it back to stock dimensions and am.hoping for the best until I find one. The tube has a seam in the inside all the way up like it is nothing more than schedule 80 pipe, this also has me curious in trying to make one. I'm sure it's tempered but not sure if it's hardened since that would essentially make it more brittle

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PhanDad
2 hours ago, Gilmer said:

I welded mine and machined it back to stock dimensions and am.hoping for the best until I find one.

Wow, you're a fast worker and obviously know your way around a machine shop.  

 

2 hours ago, Gilmer said:

I'm sure it's tempered but not sure if it's hardened since that would essentially make it more brittle

It's my understanding that the area where the needle bearings run is hardened. 

 

2 hours ago, Gilmer said:

The tube has a seam in the inside all the way up like it is nothing more than schedule 80 pipe, this also has me curious in trying to make one.

 There's a "diesel" tractor axle tube that's  an 1-1/2" to 2" longer - for some reason Simplicity had their diesel tractors rear tires sit wider:

7790WiderTranny.thumb.jpg.7350f95f194b491fff052de2aa79e9b7.jpg

I've always considered if I was in a pinch and desperate for an axle tube, I get one of those and take it to a machine shop and have it shortened.  

If you can cut keyways and a circlip groove, you might consider modifying one.  They are part #1673801SM and are still available and not too costly; there's 2 on eBay now:  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276269376206?itmmeta=01HX55R1FEPR1DKEWZP3CAD632&hash=item4052f022ce:g:VW0AAOSwq0Jlmbvn&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4Ds343nTquCRUNYjdLQJd25GOm4V5JwcaXIEz32jYBeAHQjPOoa1hyD8N7fOGnmm1vJBqF4dYJ9Rpb4KAq6TSb%2F3z45NWJzHM0DwRX7cC47RAo0A0HRTgt06s15rBH3lBQljKvRIhPhqpiWIMU%2Boc2o%2BLv224DY1jxROS6gUAW1VFgYc%2FghIjxSojSWSOF9Me5jnaYhSIUS%2FVu5XthPQSMI3wRRk9pOGBbI7g9m5l7EpzqIf8O5pgn4b2inv6BkAz4dpgQiE%2BkvkFkAL9G8HYhypHpvnSaVnaJE8LCxyVODi|tkp%3ABFBM4pfgpelj

You can check this post to see the lengthened tube, tranny side:

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/40529-7790-axle-tube-play-question/

I would think the PTO side would also have to be shortened, but that would be just a straight cut.  

You'll also see in the post that the axle tube needle bearings have been changed to full compliment ones on the newer tractors.  You may want to consider installing them.  

 

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