Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

7100 series?


Wilbur643

Recommended Posts

Is a late 80's 7100 the same as a Sovereign or close to it, it look the same? It has the hydro drive but the manual lift and a big block Kohler flathead, I've only seen the photos and the lady says it did run a few years ago but doesn't know about it now, it belonged to her dad who passed away 2 years ago. The big block and the deck are worth what she is asking.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A late 80's 7100 series is basically the same as the last "Sovereigns" built (Kohler Command or Triad engines).  The front of the frame and hood are a bit different; mechanically the same.  A couple of pics:

 With_Revitlizer.thumb.jpg.d2875bbdd0b418b829b005e455116ad6.jpg

 

And the last model of the 7100 Sovereign, the 17GTH-L:

Sov1.jpg.80fcc85d206084faf42bebbcfac5e3f8.jpg

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The sales literature is not where I can get to it at the moment to check the details, but around 1986 when they introduced the Sunstar they actually dropped and discontinued the  7100 series. I believe the consumer outcry was enough that they brought the 7100 series back at some point in 1987 in a limited number of models. I think this is the batch that the tractor you are looking at came from. I "think" these were black frames, white hoods, and orange seat decks & foot plates. Dont hold me to that. May have to break down & dig out the literature & check .. The pictures I saw  in the literature also had manual lifts.

 These were followed by the GTH-L  @PhanDad posted  a picture of above...which had hydro lifts.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 7117 I posted above was a MFG# 1690571, made in 1980 thru 1985 per the Simplicity to AC X-reference listing.

@SmilinSam has a great memory: 

Based on info from the 2005 Simplicity Engine Info Manual, the 17GTH-L, MFG# 1691957 was last listed in the 1992 table.  The next year the first Command Sovereign is listed (MFG# 1692143, white wheels, old style seat).  

The last listed 7117, MFG# 1691717 (listed as 7117H GT) appeared in the 1990 table.  It was also listed in the 1989 table.   

There were no 7117s listed in the 1987 or 1988 tables (there were a couple other 7100s, but not 7117s).  

The 7117 MFG# 1690571 was listed in 1986 and earlier tables.  

So... was MFG# 1691717 the black frame?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only pic I could find of a 7117 black frame on web (from a YouTube video):

7117BlackFrame_2YouTubeVideo.jpg.92887c6cf02af32f980b588aba7386ae.jpg

Video from 2021, obviously repowered.  

 

It's appearance is very much like the 7116 MFG# 1691382 I had at one time:

7116_0006.jpg.82423ced470a123202af91a80d1796c5.jpg

The Briggs 16HP engine had a manufacturing date of Nov 9,1987.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The evolution of the 7100 series, first into production in 1979
 

Really, the 7117 was the precursor to the change of how these large frame Sovereign Series tractors evolved in their last run.  The 17 GTH-L was essentially a 7117, but was packaged with a new manufacturing thought process; one tractor, well optioned, and standardized, offered one way only. 17 horsepower twin.  Same tire setup, 23-10.50-12 / 16-6.50-8.  Hydro transmission.  Hydro Lift.  I am not sure if the only other option eventually offered, power steering, was available in 1990?  Anyway, Simplicity must have thought this was the ideal setup as far as horsepower and twin cylinder engines, as they finished the run through 2000 with 17 & 18 horsepower Kohler twins, and decidedly kept production costs down by offering the single variation.

Not everyone likes the KT series due to oiling issues.  The series 2 was a better engine in that it oiled the rods.  But most of the failures of these were due to low oil levels and not the engine itself.  Personally, I have had both Briggs singles, Kohler singles, and Kohler twin cylinder Commands, in addition to my Magnum's and KT's, and prefer the Magnum version  (KT's) over all other configurations for smoothness and overall steady power.  Perhaps that is why the 7117 was the blueprint for the final run.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, PhanDad said:

The front of the frame and hood are a bit different; mechanically the same.  A couple of pics:

Another difference is in the engine bay itself. The 7100/GTH-L had an “X” impression in the bay while the later years seemed to be more of 1/2 of an “X” impression. IIRC, @hurleyiifilled this in when he performed a repower. I know of one other individual here locally that did the same thing. I don’t know the exact reason however it must have been a footprint/mounting hole change between the older Briggs & Kohler engines vs the newer Kohler engines?.?.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ShaunE said:

Another difference is in the engine bay itself. The 7100/GTH-L had an “X” impression in the bay while the later years seemed to be more of 1/2 of an “X” impression. IIRC, @hurleyiifilled this in when he performed a repower. I know of one other individual here locally that did the same thing. I don’t know the exact reason however it must have been a footprint/mounting hole change between the older Briggs & Kohler engines vs the newer Kohler engines?.?.

Dang ShaunE . That’s a good memory. I also cut the frame down to the Sovereign height and length to make the hood slope towards the front like the Sovereign. It’s the restoration I started when all my hood tractors decided to start being very high maintenance to say the least.  So it’s sitting here waiting to be finished. Something I plan on finishing by end of year somehow. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Only pic I could find of a 7117 black frame on web (from a YouTube video)

 

I just sifted through a number of pictures I found on a web search, and  every one of the black frame 7117 and 7116 tractors  pictured had manual or electric lifts. None had hydrolifts.

Did a similar search on the DeutZ Allis 917's.  Found a few of examples of black frame tractors with manual or electric lifts as well as hydro lifts.

 I'm guessing that the ones with the manual and electric lifts were made the same time as the Simplicity 7100's with the black frames. The ones with the hydrolifts were likley made  during the runs of the GTH-L's.

Now, the All green DA 900 series and the Green frames with black cowls had to have been made after AC bit the dust and DeutZ bought AC,  but before the 7100 series was dropped and the Sunstar introduced. I'm sure I covered this somewhere else in the forums, but dont remember where or when. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ShaunE said:

Another difference is in the engine bay itself. The 7100/GTH-L had an “X” impression in the bay while the later years seemed to be more of 1/2 of an “X” impression.

Some day you'll develop CRS too.  I have pics of a lot of stuff, just don't remember.  The orange pic is someone's 7100 series tractor and the grey pic is my 2nd 75th:

 7100EngineFramePic1r.jpg.bab8ecc4a3d757e2f9897854f26ba2d7.jpg

The frame was drilled to accept the Command engine; note 2 of the holes are in the "X" depression.

 

IMG_7638.thumb.JPG.2cc14e7b7983b2e77f64edf3c56bee2e.JPG

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, PhanDad said:

The frame was drilled to accept the Command engine; note 2 of the holes are in the "X" depression.

I think this is the reason Al’s Command kits contained a thin plate. To cover the impression without effecting the engine/driveshaft alignment too much.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tractor I just picked up, my "720" that isn't, had a Command in it (the one where they cut the flywheel shroud which I am now looking for), but I noticed that the PO or someone in the line of Franken-tractoring this had spot welded a few washers to the frame where the Command mounts.  This post has a new wealth of information regarding the frames and explains many things.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought the 7100 is has a Kohler K321 14hp so assuming it's a 7114/1690474. The 42 inch deck is a bit crusty as is the sheet metal on the tractor but over all the tractor is in good shape. The guy I got it from said is Bl, gave it to him a few years ago and he used it till last fall when it just stopped running he thinks it's something electrical. It's raining all day today so it's sitting on the trailer, hope to start checking out the problem tomorrow. It has a hole in the console which looks to be for a shifter but nothing there so I'm assuming it is a semi-auto, he said it goes forwarded and backward just fine though. I've ordered a owners and parts manual for it. Any information on these semi-auto tractor would be greatly appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Chris, some pictures would help. All of the Sovereign platform tractor frames have that hole stamped in the frame for the shifter. They just cover it up with decals on the hydro models. Lift the seat deck & snap a picture of the transmission.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, ShaunE said:

All of the Sovereign platform tractor frames have that hole stamped in the frame for the shifter.

They do.  And that seems kind of funny.  I mean, they redid the stamping as shown above, but never had another gear driven tractor with a shifter after the 17 GTH L.  You would think they would have eliminated that stamping of the "H" for the shifter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Brettw said:

They do.  And that seems kind of funny.  I mean, they redid the stamping as shown above, but never had another gear driven tractor with a shifter after the 17 GTH L.  You would think they would have eliminated that stamping of the "H" for the shifter.

I believe the tunnel is a different stamping and it's welded to front frame.  Weld crudely circled in red:

IMG_8319b.JPG.6e587216538584657592545d8372399c.JPG

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...