A 17 GTH-L followed me home today

[Tarheel]

I took the plunge and went to pick up the 17 GTH-l today.  The deck is a 48 and I have not yet seen any through rust. But the covers are still on it. The steering is so frozen that 3 large men had to grunt and strain to get it to turn. In fact, we gave up and one man lifted the front of the tractor while another pulled the deck from under it.

 All this was done while thunder rolled and the rain came down in sheets. All 4 tires were flat and none wanted to roll.  The HF winch on my small trailer would hardly move the thing (That winch has been nothing but trouble). Round trip was about 6 hours due to storms and Friday afternoon traffic around Charlotte NC.

 Tomorrow morning I'll try and get it off the trailer and into the garage where the first thing I'll tackle will be the steering and then see if I can get it running. It is dirty but looks as though the paint may be okay. I have not even raised the hood on it yet but someone has been in there and one or both heads are missing the covers. I don't hold a lot of hope for the engine but we will see.

 With all the bad, some wouldn't be happy but I am. I feel I got my money's worth in just the mowing deck and I look forward to getting started on it.

 

[PhanDad]

Pics please.

 

[Tarheel]

Phandad, I got out my old cell and put it on charge. I used to be able to get pics with it. But can't make promises.

 After a good bit of work I was able to get the tractor off the little trailer. I first unhooked the trailer from the Nissan and then hooked up the 7118 with the hitch on front. I got the trailer into the garage enough to hook the rear of the tractor with the hoist. With the rear in the air a few feet I backed the 7118 up till a front tire caught on a tailgate latch. Stopping there I greased and oiled everything to do with the steering but couldn't turn it. I then took a piece of angle and a tie down strap and pulled the front to center of the gate/ramp of the trailer and pulled the trailer out from under it.

 Now I sit in front of the fan trying to cool off. My shorts and tee shirt soaked but I can turn the steering a bit. Later, I plan to drop the link from the sector and thus work on one portion at a time.

 Turns out that the engine cover was partly removed off the left side (On the tractor) to access the starter. There is no starter on it but I may have one of two laying around. The good news is that though bent, the head cover is still held on with one bolt. Maybe I'll get lucky and the engine can be saved.

 The hood was not bolted to the frame and the reason for that is clear as well. The front of the frame is pretty badly bent. Something I think I can get straight again. Pretty sure that happened when he loaded it onto his trailer as he tried hooking the winch hook there for me. I took a tie down and hooked into the two holes just in front of the deck mount holes. (For a push blade or snow blower maybe ?)

 But as I said before. I want the steering free before doing much else with it. The deck is still in the back of the truck for now but hope to get to it soon.

 If I can't figure out the pics maybe my BIL or cousin will take care of it for me.

 

[maxwood]

Hello, I had a sovereign with tight steering. s

omeone tightened the steering tie rod ends, so tight that it was hard to turn .

once they were loosened all was good.

Hope this helps

Thanks Ken in Mi

[Tarheel]

 Thanks Ken. I'll look into that.

[Tarheel]

What pictures would you like to see Phandad ?

 I was able to get some time in this evening working on the steering. I can brace myself and turn it by hand now but nowhere near drive able.  I don't like the idea of dropping the steering but if that is what it takes I'll do so. I dropped the link to the front axles and it didn't make a great deal of difference. As it is I have been adding PB blaster and carb cleaner to the steering shaft and letting it run down. From the small results I'm thinking the main problem is in the sector.

 I am tempted to put a little diesel or kerosene in a grease gun and see if that works/helps.

The bent frame may be a bit more of a problem than I thought. There is a pretty good kink where the exhaust exits and the front "Vs" out so the front is narrow. I have a scissor jack that I think will fit to help pull the "V" out of the front and a piece of solid 1 inch square bar that will maybe help beating out the kink just in front of the exhaust. Then the whole front will need to be shifted to the "Drivers" side maybe an inch.

 The engine was stuck but just a bit of a tug on the flywheel got it moving. I put PB in one cylinder and just realized I forgot the other one. Guess I'll head back out and take care of that.

The PTO arm will move but only a bit before it sticks ( It is stuck with the PTO engaged ) But that is for later. Haven't checked the bevel gear box etc yet. The spring is missing from the PTO belt lever.

 Lots of work left with it. But the steering comes first.

[ShaunE]

There is in my opinion the best steering rehab post on here by @PeppyDan. The steel tube that is currently in place seems to be the common denominator. I replaced mine with bronze but followed the rest of the directions verbatim. Myself & @Bill725 have done this to multiple tractors finding it's even better than P.S.

[Tarheel]

 Been turning the wheel with a 4 foot 2x4 through the steering wheel spokes and it isn't getting any better so I'll pull the unit tonight if I can get the wheel off.(And the way everything is stuck, That remains doubtful !)

 ShaunE, I don't have a metal lathe and all the machinists I have known are no longer with us. My BIL has a friend who may be willing to do such work. But I do hate the down time. I have lots of machines that will pull this one but putting it back in the shop is another thing altogether. Yep, the shop is almost full again.

[ShaunE]

@Tarheel Well it was an easy decision for me. I printed the posting, ordered the bearings from Motion, bronze bushing from McMaster & took all of that stuff to a local machine shop. 2 day turn around eliminating years of frustration without truly fixing the problem. You’ll have a lot more down time if you don’t actually fix it. 

[Tarheel]

 Sorry ShaunE, I'm not sure we are on the same page here.

Without a doubt, the machine is unusable as is. But fixing it ? While I am without a doubt that PeppyDan's way is better, Just cleaning and polishing the parts should put it back to use just as it came from the factory. If it is to far gone for that then I have others that can be used to rob parts   (although I hate the idea because that puts the robbed machine that much farther from ever being used again). Even that is kind of foolish because the tractor I have in mind has a bad engine and is missing the Sunstrand along with the hydro shifter arm and steering wheel. But I have an engine (16hp Vanguard) and I have a spare hydro. In fact, I think I have all the parts needed to put it back in service other than a steering wheel.

 But back to the 17 GTH,  There are still far to many unknowns about that tractor to think of spending much money on the steering for now. But, that don't mean forever. I want the thing mobile as soon as possible but come fall when the mowing is done and the leaves are taken care of, if the tractor works out I may see about the bearings and bushing fix for it. I have been wanting to try that for a long while anyway. 

 What did the machine shop charge you for the work ?  Thanks for your input. Just because I don't see that build as viable for my situation for now doesn't mean I don't see the merits.

[ShaunE]

Two sectors, $40. 10 years ago.

[PhanDad]

20 hours ago, Tarheel said:

What pictures would you like to see Phandad

Just a couple general pics of tractor and/or deck to better understand your “deal” - nothing special. 

[Tarheel]

I'll see what I can manage sir.

[Tarheel]

 Went out to the shop around daylight this morning. Started working on getting the steering wheel off.  Around an hour and a half later the nut and bolt are removed and the wheel raised maybe 1/16ths of an inch. I figured it was gonna be a bear and it hasn't disappointed me.

 I used the 425 to push it deeper into the shop so I could get a direct upward lift with the hoist and it is sitting there now under tension. That and the air hammer is about all I can do. Can't use heat on a plastic wheel.

The battery box is rusted and has holes but that is something I can deal with I hope. I hope to remove the starter from one of the spare parts KT's sometime today and get it in this one. If the heat allows. They are saying it is gonna be bad for the next few days here.

[Tarheel]

 I took a old V-belt and went over the steering wheel then under it at the center. Then up through the spokes of the wheel where they are narrow on both sides. I hooked both ends to the hoist and pretty much lifted the tractor. In a few minutes with the air hammer I had the wheel off.

 Found a used starter and got it installed then got the bent sheet metal back in place and as I was under the tractor to tighten the bottom starter bolt, I found that both bolts on the drive shaft at the engine were missing nuts. I have those ready to install.

 One bolt remains holding the steering (I think) I have only removed the steering once on a RBT. The hydro lift hose makes seeing this one a bit more of a challenge.

 As it sits I have only the money I paid and a tank of gas invested not counting time. A full set of tires and a new battery will raise that amount quite a bit. ( if things work out)

 I keep thinking about the steering mods and of the price ShaunE said he paid. I don't imagine a shop here will touch one for under $200 but I may check and see.

[PhanDad]

6 hours ago, Tarheel said:

The hydro lift hose makes seeing this one a bit more of a challenge.

And if it's the one I'm thinking of, prevents the steering assembly from being removed from the tractor:

Pic from my PS install on my 75th.  

 

[Tarheel]

 Well, the steering gear box is free now. From a 4 foot 2x4 and a good bit of effort to a 12 inch Phillips screw driver and a single finger (This without the front axles connected). It isn't done quite yet as there are still sticky spots. But I'll try to go out in a while and install a battery. If I can get it to run I'll order a set of tires and put it to work soon. Hitting it with fresh grease every hour or so.

 I haveyet to look at the deck or check the bgb grease or the fluid in the hydro etc. With the way things have been going, I imagine lots of places like the hydro shifter and such needing to be cleaned and greased and I haven't a clue what the deck bearings and blades are like yet. I'll need the PTO belt for sure.

 But at least there is some progress.

Thanks Phandad, I never did find the hidden bolt.

[Tarheel]

 Last night I got a battery in it and nothing. Got my test light and no power at the key switch but couldn't see / find the breaker .  (Did see it in the parts manual think I can find it now) Did see a relay, could someone tell me what it is for ?

 The fuel tank was almost full, but not with fuel. I pulled the fuel line loose at the pump and nothing drained. Used the air hose to try and clear it and couldn't. The inlet for the pump was/is full of rust and when I removed the fuel tank the screen/fuel line adapter came out. It was almost gone from rust. No screen etc. Chances are the pump and carb will be shot as well. I do have both replacements on hand I think (aftermarket). and a couple of spare engines I can rob should the need arise.

 

[PhanDad]

35 minutes ago, Tarheel said:

Did see a relay, could someone tell me what it is for ?

The relatively big relay bolted to the dash "front" is the start relay.  Here's a few poor quality pics of the dash area of the 17GTH-L I had:

 

The circuit breaker can be seen laying on the frame on the left side of the first pic.  

 

[Tarheel]

 Thanks Phandad. From what I can see of your pictures, I imagine you are speaking of the solenoid. This tractor has a small maybe 1 inch cube mounted to (On top of) the circuit breaker.   Part # 1726829sm

[Tarheel]

 Good news and bad news. Good news is I got the wiring working. Bad news is the engine only turns about 1/16th turn and then back the same distance. This seems strange because I turned the flywheel early on with a pair of pliers maybe 2 or 3 inches.

 Now I'm thinking this was the reason the starter was pulled.  Any ideas ?

[Tarheel]

 The engine is now free. I'm thinking I got rust in the flywheel or starter teeth. I have voltage to the coil but no spark. I cleaned the points and had to come inside to check the correct point gap.

 When and if I get spark, I'll get to work on the fuel. I picked up a new fitting for the tank today. It has no screen so I got an inline filter.

I hope the coil is okay but have my doubts.

[Austin]

If the coil is bad, and you need one I might have a used/new one here. But I’m not 100% sure.

[Tarheel]

 Thanks Austin,Very kind of you to offer. If I end up needing one I'll pm you for price and shipping etc. I got spark after a good bit of work. But it is pretty weak. (or so it seems with the spark tester I have) The engine fired and ran for a few seconds on carb cleaner.

A good bit of my trouble with the ignition was nothing more than poor eyesight. For years now I have worked better at night because the glare of the sun made it hard to see in daylight. Now I can't seem to get it bright enough to see.  Looks like a couple more 4 foot LED shop lights are in order.

Anyway,  When I figured out that was the problem, I worked more by feel than by sight and managed to get the points set something near correct. I plan to get to work on the fuel system tomorrow afternoon if able. From the fuel tank having been 2/3rds full of water I imagine the float in the carb will be crushed. If the pump is bad, I don't know if I'll replace it with aftermarket or just go to an electric. Any thoughts ?

Thanks all.

[PhanDad]

9 hours ago, Tarheel said:

Now I can't seem to get it bright enough to see.

Have you tried a LED "headlamp" (a bright LED light on an adjustable strap that you wear on your head and puts light directly on what you're trying to see)?  

As to the fuel pump, I think some have had success running a KT without one.  Probably worth a try.