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DGBork

Gear Grinding 727

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DGBork
Hi All, I recently picked up a Broadmoor 727 with tiller that had been sitting ($200). I got it running pretty well (new points, condenser, plug, clean out carb and tank) and have used the tiller twice - works great. The problem i am having is that the transmission grinds when going into gear. I have adjusted the brake/clutch rod spacer collar according to the owners manual and have checked the transmission oil level. Still, it grinds when going from 1st to reverse, even if i let the engine idel down between shifts. Any ideas on what else to check? Could the transmission oil be too thin? Maybe the belt is stretched out and needs replacing? Thanks for any advice! Dave Borkman Saunderstown, RI dgbjork@earthlink.net

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Kent
While I have no experience with a Broadmoor, I've found that the most common cause of "gear grinding" to be the fact that the drive belt is still moving (and spinning the transmission drive pulley) while the clutch is engaged. Several things can contribute to this: 1) Brakes out of adjustment -- doesn't stop the tranny from spinning. This adjustment is usually critical to the clutch adjustment.... 2) Clutch out of adjustment -- doesn't allow the belt to move far enough away from the pulleys. Though the "set distance" may appear correct based upon the Owner's Manual, there can be enough wear or slop in old systems to where you need more adjustment than the oringal "new" specs call for.... 3) Belt stops are missing or not adjusted correctly -- very common problem. Belt stops are often used to either prevent a belt from becoming an "oval" when clutched, because this would still allow the belt to contact a pulley, or to provide friction to the backside of a belt to help stop it from moving. Missing or broken belt stops seem common on old tractors, since someone at some time considered it a "unnecessary" part and left it off or didn't replace it when it broke.... 4) Belt is too short, for whatever reason. Simplicity belts lengths can come in small increments, such as 49.2", while the aftermarket belts usually come in 1/2" increments, such as a 49" or a 49.5".... Just some things to consider.... The foot-draggin' Clubhouse Custodian...

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Dutch
The only item that Kent "may" have missed is a pulley brake. Some tractors have them, others don't (don't know about your 727). Anyway, if the 727 does have a pulley brake, check it closely. Sometimes they look okay at a glance, but have grooves worn so deep that they do not make contact with the pulley.

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BrianS
Here's my two cents, I had a very simmilar problem on my 2012 Landlord. When tilling at high RPMs at times I couldn't even get the tractor to stop. It was better at low RPMs though. What I found was the front belt gaurd was bent out of shape and no matter what I did I could not get it to control the belt when the clutch was in. I replaced the belt gaurd and adjusted it craddle the belt around the front pulley when the belt was slack. Works like a charm now. I just had to learn how important that front belt gaurd is. Not to say this is your problem but it is where I would start.

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TomSchmit
I can almost guarantee you that the problem lies with your belt guides. These are the steel wire "fingers" that you will seeclose to the drive pulley under the engine. These must be adjusted very close (I recall about 1/8 inch) to the pulley. When the cluthc is pushed in, these fingers hold the belt in the proper position so that they disengage. Make this proper adjustment and your problem will disappear! Tom

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BigSix
DBork: I don't have nearly the experience you just accessed, in the previous replies, but I have been working with (and on) my Dad's 2110 Landlord and it has/had the same problem. I found that the "Large Frame Tractor Manual" calls for 11/16" free play in the clutch, and brake band, adjustments, but that this was not what this tractor needed. I took out all but about 1/16" free play in the clutch adjustment, i.e., that round, approx. 1" long "collar" that slides over the threaded rod for the adjustment (from memory here, so go easy on me guys--I didn't go out to the shed to look). IOW, my "collar" is about 1/16", if that, from my NUTS (easy, now--LoL). As Kent says, this adjustment IS related to how the brake adjustment is set. I backed the brakes off until I could still skid the wheels, but didn't leave as much play there as the manual suggested, either. I figured maybe the belt was incorrect, as MANY things were way wrong when I started in on this tractor. Bottom line: Now, with only about 1/16" instead of 11/16", when you push on the brake, the tranny pulley sometimes comes to a complete stop, but most times, is spinning slowly...I'd guestimate it to be turning approx. 50 RPM. (i.e., 1 revolution per second, approx.) That sounds fast, but in reality, it's slow enough that when you do shift, it just clicks right in, no banging and 95% of the time, no grinding. Of course, I could measure the belt, or get a new one, but why get crazy, you know? My point being: don't be afraid to deviate from the suggested settings, IMHO, as getting the grinding to stop is more impt. than having the tractor set "to spec." Just my two krona.

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KSever
I would have to agree with Tom. After all the trouble I had with my 717 when I first acquired it, and to find out that the preowner had taken all the belt guides off was a real pain. The guides sure make a big difference in how those belts perform. My snowblower on the front would never shut off without the guides until the belt came off the pulley and I can say the belts came off often. Just my 2 cents worth Kris

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BigSix
Kris and Tom: You know, you've got me thinking, now--maybe that's what's wrong with my tractor, causing me to have to adjust the belts other than they were originally supposed to be set. I'm gonna look for missing belt guides on this Landlord--maybe then I could put the adjustments back to the factory specs. I assume all the belt guide "wires" are depicted in the Large Frame Tractor Manual? Thanks, Peter

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TomSchmit
The belt guides are always shown in the parts diagrams. You should be able to identify them all if you get the correct parts diagrams from the Simplicity website. Tom

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Dutch
Peter, Belt guides (wires) are extremely important. Even with them properly adjusted, they are NOT an instant or positive stop. Driven pulleys will continue to spin for a few moments. That's why I converted to an electric clutch on my weed cutter.

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