Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Sign in to follow this  
SmilinSam

Briggs 16 Vanguard twin

Recommended Posts

SmilinSam
A long while back we got on the discussion about problems with the 16 Vanguard relating to bearings on the crankshaft. Are there any other things in particular to look for in a used one of these? I picked one up at a consignment auction yesterday and it has oil all over the starter area. I need to check this out and see if there are any problems with gaskets or seals, but the compression on both cylinders is well within specs. Can't believe it only sold for ..... $70

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
powerking_one
Sounds like a potential "schmokin" deal Sam. Are they ball, roller, tapered roller, or plain bearings? It's hard to believe that a reputable commercial duty type engine earned a bad rap on main bearing design, but then again it being an (Italian??) imported engine, they may have used pasta for bearing material. Tom(PK)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
generalchaos
I just bought one of the 16hp Vanquards about a month ago. (New, and certainly not for 70.00. Way to go!) My motor has made in japan on the casing. Did they switch the country of origin? I asked the dealer if putting the power take of clutch on the drive shaft would be OK because when the clutch is disengaged it puts a good size pulling force on the shaft. He said sure no problem, but now your scaring me with this talk of pasta bearings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PatRarick
Sam, I assume this is a horizontal shaft? There is a ball bearing on the PTO side, and a replaceable plain bearing on the flywheel side. In a vertical shaft, there are replaceable plain bearings on both ends of the crank. I assume the plain bearing has to do with pressurized lubrication. It would be pretty tough to pressure lube the connecting rods with ball bearings on both sides. I don't think that there is a bearing problem as much as much as an application problem. I am almost sure it came from extending the pull beyond the end of the crankshaft. In fact, I have heard of no bearing problems, other than mine. As to oil all over the starter, again assuming it is a horizontal shaft, it would have to be a head gasket, valve cover gasket, or oil spills. Another possibility is the breather gasket, but the cylinder on the starter side would also be covered in oil. I can think of nothing in particular to look for as far as problems. With the bad bearing being one exception, mine (I have three) are very reliable. I would say you stole that engine. The Vanguard V-twin engines are a joint venture between Briggs and Stratton and Daihatsu, a Japanese company. Basically (notice I said BASICALLY) Daihatsu provided the design, and Briggs makes the parts. The three cylinder, liquid cooled Briggs engines are also Daihatsu. With a few exceptions, the single cylinder Vanguards are Mitsubishi and Briggs combined. The Intek OHV engines are Briggs alone. Pat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SmilinSam
The discussion was originaly made concerning the question you asked your dealer. I had the same concern about using one in my HB 116 project and having a pulley on the shaft to drive front PTO implements. Another memeber(and I can't remember who) reported having trouble with the insert bearing wearing out on the flywheel side. He went back and forth with Briggs about it. Last I knew he ws going to machine in a ball bearing on that end of the shaft to try and cure the problem. This whole ordeal was why I stuck with the cast Iron single cylinder design for that tractor, got gunshy about using the Vangaurd in that application. This engine may end up in my 917 since there is no need for a front PTO on it. I'll keep searching the discussion pages for this discussion we had, but I have not found it yet. Sam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PatRarick
Sam, I was the one that had the problem. I originally had installed the engine in my HB-212. When installed so that the original grill can be used the crankshaft does not protrude far enough to the front, to use the pulley for the snowblower. I had a pulley machined to compensate for that difference, and the pull of the belt was about 1" beyond the end of the crank. Briggs did not see a problem with this, and warranteed the engine. The replacement engine suffered the same fate, then Briggs decided it was an application problem. We were going to machine the block for a needle bearing, not a ball bearing. We finally gave up on the machining idea, as there is so little "meat" around the bearing area that were were afraid it may not hold up. We toyed with the idea of welding new aluminum around the area, but gave up over concerns of proper lubrication to the connecting rods. I bought a new 18 horse Vanguard for my HB-212, and now run the snowblower off the center PTO. I replaced the bearing in my "bad" Vanguard with an original Briggs bearing, and installed the engine in my 914H. It has worked flawlessly since. If one would choose to install this engine in a 700 or 900 series AC, or the Simplicity eqivilent, there is enough room under the hood where the original front PTO could be used. Installing the engine is easy. It just needs to be raised by 7/8". A little more involved, is making a custom exhaust system so that the exhaust will exit as original. On my first 900 series conversion, I ran into a problem where heat from the exhaust was not exiting the engine compartment properly. The engine did not overheat, but it did get hot enough under the hood to cause a problem with vapor lock. A heat shield, much like the original muffler's heat shield, solved the problem. On this particular conversion, I used a remote mount oil filter, and mounted it on the inside of the front tractor frame, just below the grill. Here, there is room for the front PTO. On my second conversion, I used a cub cadet type muffler, and installed it in the front of the tractor frame, exiting the original hole. Again, I shielded the muffler. I used the optional side mount oil filter. This required that I cut an arc in the hood side panel and into the frame to clear the filter. It didn't take much. About 1/2" into the frame, and 3/4" into the hood panel. When finished and painted, it looks original. The short filter barely extends out the side, while the long filter extends between 1 1/2" to 2". Pat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Al
Hi, There was a problem with some electric clutches on the Vertical shaft engines a while back the clutches would short out and take out the bearings and crank in about 3 to 10 hrs running after it shorted. Not the engines fault. Good luck, Al Eden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
scottope
Just a little side note here, the Vanguard engine is bought from Diahatsu in Japan, and Markted under Briggs and Stratton, the same goes for the 3 cylinder gas and diesel engines, which still have the diahatsu dataplates on board. Another little note, the vanguards have PTO bearings, while the Intek, (Briggs and Stratton's own engine) does not. Mark at Scott Landscaping

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×