Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Sign in to follow this  
Guest

General Bevel Gear box question?????

Recommended Posts

Guest
With all the posts and discussion, recently Kents blow out among others, should a person plan on having an extra BGB around? Can I expect to blow one up or tear one apart in the lifetime, or second lifetime of my tractors? Ive read somewhere its the only flaw in the Simplicity design, how flawed is it? It sounds as if preventive maint, wouldnt do any good other than change oil? I would be in trouble if i lost one right now. Any thoughts? anyone? Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KSever
It's sometime hard to tell how bad they are worn. When I picked up my Landlord I couldn't even feel any slop in this one at all, But when I took out the engine I could pull the shaft in the front of the BGB out about 1 1/2". That's a good question you've asked and to ad to that. How can you tell if it is bad when the engine is holding this shaft in place. I even had no side to side slop just pulls right out the front.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UCD
Doug I don't think changeing the oil would hurt. There isn't much adjustment in them other than the basic set up. Mine has stood the test of time With broken drive connectors and stalling the diesel with a pluged snow blower quite a few times and any thing that can happen to wear on them. but that is not saying my time will come. Anything free is worth what you pay for it This & $1.00 might get you a small Coffee Maynard aka/UCD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
The other day i read Sams essay on buying tractors, ya know just for the heck of it i did go out and check for play on the sov. I couldnt get any play in any direction. I was just wondering if a guy shouldnt have one for in the future if they are prone to be bad, there would be a shortage eventually and i plan on being in the orange for a long time. Maynard i figured i would put fresh lube in before i start blowing snow with her, which is real soon by the looks of things..... Makes me think of my old AMC hornet, the doors wore out on them, when i went to the junkyard to get one, all the junkers doors were gone........ Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CleanBee
After reading a recent post on here about a BGB that had its gears ruined, I replied with my thoughts that it was due to running it dry on gear lube. He responded that it was full when he took it apart. This really got me thinking of what could have caused it? After some research, I found that the later model Soverigns have a redesigned larger diameter input shaft than our older machines. The larger diameter now matches the left sides pto diameter. This would indicate that a problem was detected due to inadiquate front bearings. Next, I pulled apart two extra BGB units I have, one with the gears shot and the other in good shape. Upon inspection, both of them showed signs of rust on the input shaft between the two front bearings. This is where the pastic vent cap enters the unit. The one with the gears destoyed showed that the rust was worse and was detected in the bearings. It also showed signs that the input shaft bearings seized at some time and began turning in the case. Both cross bearings were ok except for metal from the bearings. I also found in the good unit some wobble wear on the key that secures the input gear from turning on its shaft. I have seen how untrue the driveshafts can be on these tractors. I spent some extra time on my B-110 adjusting it so the shaft is centered while turning. To answer the posted question, Extra BGB is a good idea, but I feel originals ones will last if a few steps are done to maintain them. First, keep moisture away from the vent cap on the BGB. I am planning on installing a different plug on mine, a metal one with a hole that I will drill on the plugs side, tapered downward on the outside and another hole to meet it up the center of the inside. This will keep it vented and water out. Second, true up the input shaft visually to not wobble while turning it. I was able to do this just with the slop of the mounting bolts. This reduces heavy turning stresses on the bearing. Third, if the motor is removed, loosen the set screw on the input shaft and allow it to slide. Bolting a motor on without doing this can preload the input bearings. Fourth, keep the fluid full, if any seals leak, replace them. Fifth, make sure the lock nut on the right side is tight and proper shims are installed on the outside of its seal to make it flush with the cases edge. The right seal has a dual perpose, it acts as a thrust bearing to keep proper amount of sash between the gears. Sixth, occasionally check the input shaft for abnormal side to side play and the input shaft to output shaft for abnormal turning play. Seventh, make sure all 10 attaching bolts are kept tight. I am going to do preventative maintiance on both of my tractors, replacing the three seals, lube, and the input key under its gear. Total cost of this is about 12.00 and time enjoyed. Hope this helps clear up any questions of our tractors darker side. Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CleanBee
Kris, The bolt up the center of the input shaft must have come loose or broke. This bolt holds the gear and the inner front bearing tight on the shaft. Maybe caused from a preload inward on the input shaft. Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
powerking_one
My thoughts on this: I agree with Dan/others on minimizing the runout of the drive shaft (at both ends), and might opt to go a little overboard by using a dial indicator to REALLY null it out. I'd recommend a high quality synthetic 75W-90 gear oil (such as Red-Line , Amsoil, others). Many folks have found the input/driver shaft gear cap screw to come loose. The service manual spec's installing it with Loctite Red. Maybe that's not quite good enough; I'd recommend Loctite Green. Should one have to remove the bolt in the future, heating it up to over 400 deg F will allow it. On my BGB, transmission, and engine, I installed magnetic drain plugs. The vent plug on the BGB should be replaced with the vent hole style on the side and/or with a scintered bronze vent insert. Tom(PK)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
thank you all. I think if i ever come across a "spare" im going to nab it. The info provided was great, thanks Maynard, kris, dan, tom. very interesting. Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jonjacobson
I'm in the process of rebuilding one now, (landlord 2012). This one was pretty sloppy on the input shaft and was making noise as you let out the clutch. Also the nut on the output side, (to tranny) was loose and the keyway was wallered out. My machinest has the shaft now, putting in a new straight keyway 180 degrees out. He measured all of the keyways and ok'd them. I'm going after bearings and seals later this week, the case and gears appear fine. I also have a B-10 of the same vintage, but the bgb seems tight, I wonder if the more horses you have the worse they wear?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kent
I can't swear to it, but I think you can often hear when they're very worn -- now that I think about it. Mine would make clunking sounds when I shut the engine off and the engine spun down to rest -- just the last few RPMs of the turning engine. About two or three "clunk".... I imagine it was excessive backlash.... I noticed it, but didn't think too much about it, since I'd heard it make similar noises before. Now that I think about it, though -- it made those noises with the old variable speed and badly worn out BGB. I managed to make the tranny swap before that BGB self-destructed.... The foot-draggin' Clubhouse Custodian...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dutch
It would probably take less than one hour to disconnect the belts and driveshaft, remove the inspection cover, and check the BGB thoroughly once a year. I know I should, but I don't. Like the commercial says, "Pay now or pay later."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kent
That's one point I'll definitely concede to the running-board tractors. To disconnect the driveshaft at the BGB on a B-series tractor, you'd have to pull the steering wheel, then disconnect all wiring and cables, pull the dash and the cover plate for the tunnel... Closer to half a day than to a half hour... The foot-draggin' Clubhouse Custodian...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dadsy98
... The BGB topic sounds like a candidate for the resources section. Lots of good information here. Kent, I had to remove and reinstall the briggs in my 2110. The book says to loosen the set screw at the BGB end of the drive shaft. I looked at the tractor for a while trying to see how to accomplish this without completely disassembling the whole thing. Well, I just reconnected the shaft since it is the same engine, frame, and drive shaft. Now I'm wondering if I might cause a future meltdown of my BGB... Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Im thinking as far as my Sovereign goes, ill just change lube yearly, add magnetic plugs. I hate to move a single anything since all is working so well, im leary of moving the motor, flex discs, any of it, for fear ill be one millimeter off when it goes back together then who knows what happens. OF course if I have to I have to. Thanks again to all. Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JonetteP
Hi all, being in the repair of these older units, I will tell you what we have experienced. Mostly, people forget that the bgb is there. It never gets the attention that the engine and transmission do. We have seen the front or input gear come loose. Also make sure that the mounting bolts that connect the bgb to the front of the tractor are tight. We now use loctite blue to insure they do not come loose. In my opinion, the nome of the game is maintenance. Check and change the oil at least once a year. Look at the oil for any signs of metalics. This will indicate a problem. Lastly, I am a firm beleiver in the use of synthetics for high stress areas. The advantage in this instance is that the bevel gears are helical cut to reduce noise and povide a longer lasting gearbox. With the helical cut gears, more sliding is happening between the gears, therefore there is the chance of more friction and heat. Synthetics protect especially well against this. My 2 cents. Pierce Sales & Service serving you since 1950 call 507-534-2431

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Marion_Kerr
I bought a BGB as an extra for my BEE-10 because I got it cheap. Doesn't take up much space and figured it was a good hedge against a future problem. I don't use the B-10 every day but feel good about the extra BGB being available..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
powerking_one
Kent, Your BGB symptoms cited sound like worn keyways caused the failure and thus one of them probably sheared. Be sure to let us know what you find after you autopsy it. Tom(PK)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
Tom, "The vent plug on the BGB should be replaced with the vent hole style on the side and/or with a scintered bronze vent insert." Im not sure i understand what you mean, could you tell me more? Do you happen to have a pic? Dan, "Seventh, make sure all 10 attaching bolts are kept tight. " Just curious, do the 10 bolts often come loose? Reply at your leisure... thank you Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Who's Online (See full list)

    • s_stephen
    • CarlH
    • a_sannine
    • Bear
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. briggsetc
      briggsetc
      (74 years old)
    2. PhanDad
      PhanDad
      (74 years old)
  • Recent Status Updates

    • Dean McFadden

      Dean McFadden

      Good morning peeps! I’m always searching for helpful information with my AC collection. Hope to find out new information and pass on my own experience in restoration. Here are some pics of my babies. I’m still looking for front rims for the 410 so yesterday I put the 310 wheels on took it for a drive. Working pretty good but still needs some carb work. Gotta get the 310 running next. Have a great day!😁
       

      · 1 reply
    • thedaddycat

      thedaddycat  »  SmilinSam

      It's in pretty sad shape, but yes I have a yellow plastic cap that I'm fairly certain is what you need. PM me your details and I'll get it out to you.
      · 0 replies
  • Adverts

×