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hoskinsb

B112 clutch/brake system does it really work?

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hoskinsb
Please don't lynch me, but I was wondering if the clutch/brake system for the variable speed transmission really works in reality or does it work better in theory. Case and point: on my B112 when I push the brake pedal all the way down it does not seem to be far enough to stop the brake on the transmission. There just doesn't seem to be enough adjustment to make everything stop like it suppose to. Am I the only one that has noticed this? Thanks, Brent

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thedaddycat
Unless I'm mistaken, the only difference between a variable drive and a fixed pulley system is the longer tranny input shaft on the variable to accomodate the movable pulley. The brake on my 3310 V will lock up the back end no problem. Look in the manual for the correct adjustment procedure for the variable drive system.

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EZDUZIT
Hey! I agree with Kirk [thedaddycat] but,when you get it straight and locking up,please let us know exactly how you did it !! I have a 3212V and I cant get it quite right. Can anyone else give me any hints or share experience on this? I always appreciate the help I get here.Thank you all for being here. Pete. [Another friend of Bill"s]

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stumpy
Agreed....mine will stop the tractor, but never quite stops the drive and box enough to shift cleanly. Must be my lack of proper adjustment skill, or intellect. My Homesteader is completely different mechanically but has the same problem <G>. Bob "Stumpy" Hazelbrook

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roma3112
well let me weigh in a little bit here, the brakes on my 3112h (i belive they are the same type as mensioned above) work great if you want to slow down but god forbid if u need to stop now!! I have adjusted and re-adjusted to no avail. i cant completely blame the engineering yet as the only thing i have not tryied was to replace the friction materyial. Although i dont hold out great hopes for that as there appears to be sufficient life left to the band. Dont get me wrong they work ok and in reality how often do you need to panic stop a mower. :)

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PatRarick
On the variable speed setup, the brakes are an integral part of the variable speed adjustment and operation. There are many more moving parts on the variable speed system, all subject to wear. It's my opinion that Simplicity's adjustment procedure is correct when everything is new, but as parts wear, it requires more "fine tuning" to get it operating properly. It seems that the adjustment of every variable speed unit is "unique" in it's particular adjustment. I have had six variable speed units over the years, and none worked properly when I acquired them. With the first one, I couldn't get it adjusted properly, even though I followed the adjustment procedure to the letter. I finally studied the system until I knew what each particular adjustment accomplished. From there, I was able to play with the adjustment until I got it right. Three things that I found to be critical, are worn belts, the idler pulley, and the idler pulley spring. If the belt is worn too thin, adjustment is very dificult as the belt does not ride in the pulleys properly. If the idler has been replaced with one that is not the exact size, adjustment is extremely difficult. If the pulley is too small, the belt rides too low. When the belt stop is adjusted as per specs, it doesn't contact the belt properly to stop the belt when the clutch is disengaged. If the pulley is too large, the belt stop itself tightens the belt when the clutch is disengaged. An incorrect spring will also make adjustment extremely difficult, if it can be adjusted at all. All in all, make sure that all parts are OEM, study the adjustment procedure, tweak the adjustments to get proper operation, and the unit will work great. One final note, as to replacing the belt. A new belt is stiff and has a lot of grip. It may require several adjustments until the belt has been broken in. Pat

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thedaddycat
I have to add this addendum just to clarify a major point here. MY tractor is not like anything else any of you have, since I added the support plates to it. The BGB is located 3/16" farther back from the frame due to the cross plate between the frame and the BGB. This had quite an effect on everything aft of the frame, including ALL the rods, linkages, and adjustments. I had to adjust the variable lever to its max travel and it's still not quite right but I can live with it. All the other adjustments had to be made accordingly, too. It took a while to get right and I may still tweak it a little, but I adjusted the clutch first then kept tightening the brake until I had good braking. When the clutch started to not disengage cleanly I just backed off on the brake a little. Here is the rear pulley at the fully low speed position. The speed lever will now travel well below the lowest detent on the bracket. The front pulley at the fully high speed position. It should ride a little below the outer diameter of the pulley but due to limited travel range of the adjustment I can't get it any lower. Consequently, my high speed is a little higher. Here are several skids made in dirt from a panic stop at full high/3rd gear. Both wheels locked up at least initially, the left side seems to hold the skid longer than the right. Remember, this tractor weighs almost 1100 pounds without me on it.

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hoskinsb
Thanks everyone for your input. I would like to add a couple of comments. I have replaced the belt and the brake lining. The only adjustment I can find is the main connector rod from the pedal that actually links all the parts. I am not sure how the variable speed pulley adjustment system will aid in stopping the belt from spinning when the brake is applied? My concern is not the stopping aspect of the tractor but the shifting, I do not like to grind the gears. I appreciate the input it is very valuable to me. Thanks, Brent

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Kent
Have you adjusted your variable speed "by the book?" Here's the link: http://www.simpletractors.com/service/vari-drive_adjustment.htm The brake/clutch are combined on one pedal on these tractors, and their adjustment is absolutely inter-related because of that. It seems even more sensitive to adjustment on the variable speeds. The brake system helps stop the rear pulley and internal tranny gears from turning, and the clutch adjustment (in addition to the CRITICAL adjustment of the belt guide/stop) stop the belt from gripping on the spinning front pulley. The belt and transmission pulley must come to a COMPLETE stop or you'll grind the gears in these unsynchronized trannies.... The foot-draggin' Clubhouse Custodian...

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MikeES
The critical adjustment for shifting gears is the belt brake. This is the tab or guide attached to the idler pulley. This is many times missing from old tractors. Without it the variable is impossible to stop the belt. I have had no problems with stopping the belt nor locking up the wheels with the brakes. But as stated above it does require some tinkering to get it all to "sync" together. I have found that you make the adjustments by the book, exactly as the book says. Last the belt brake and wheel brake require numerous adjust and trials to get it right. The way I have done this is to jack up and SUPPORT the tractor FIRMLY with the back wheels off the ground. Remove the back wheels so you can get easy and safe access to the vari-drive system and the brake setup. Go through the adjustments, start the tractor and put the vari-drive through the ranges and work the clutch with your hand. You will be able to easily see what is working and what is not. It is the best way to adjust the belt brake. The wheel brake acts as the clutch pedal stop, so it becomes a critical adjustment. If the wheel brake allows the clutch pedal to extend too far, you will jam the belt into the drive pulley. ALWAYS STOP THE TRACTOR (ENGINE) BEFORE MAKING ANY ADJUSTMENTS. Good Luck! Mike S.

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hoskinsb
This weekend I made adjustments "by the book" and everything worked perfectly. Until I posted the question to the forum and received all the responses did I learn that the idler pulley belt stop actually acts a a belt brake, thanks Mike. I always thought when the clutch/brake pedal was depressed that the idler pulley came up and took the pressure off the belt, but not to bind it. I realize the books are a tremendous asset in keeping these old machines in running order, but it takes a forum like this to explain exactly how things work where the books fall short of detail. My restoration project could not have been possible without everyone's help. Thank you all very much, Brent

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MikeES
Brent, we have all learned from each other. I am a thousand times more knowledgable about these tractors now than I was about 4 years ago when this club started. I thank everyone in this club. The knowledge makes these tractors much more enjoyable. Good Luck! Mike S.

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