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Marion_Kerr

SLIPPAGE / Weighing Down Tractor

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Marion_Kerr
Since the snow-plowing season is upon us - a bit of advise on weight. In the early 50's when I was a young'un on the farm, I remember helping dad make wheel weights for the farm tractors out of cement. The rule of thumb from the dealers was "don't weigh you tractor down so much that you will have "0" slippage. The reasoning was that as long as there was a little "slippage" the transmission, axles, spacers, bearings, gears, pressure plate and clutch would hold up without breaking. The idea was to let the tires slip first. I have had my old (here comes a swear word) 100 cub cadet weighted down for 27 years while using the same clutch plate and transmission/rear-end without a breakdown. Now, it'll probably make me a liar on the first snow, since I said it.... Anyway, just a little thought for your consideration.

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TBOLT
My 8x16ag tires on my 616A/C is about 1/2-3/4 full of antifreeze and water. I dont know how much weight that is but they sure are heavy. I have had the wheels spin a few times plowing, so far I have'nt had any problems. It had water in the tires when I bought it. All the neighbors and friends' farm tractors are full of water, most with steel wheel weights also. My friends massey ferguson's wheel weights came on the tractor,looks like part of the wheel and weigh in at 250# ea.plus water. I had a puncture and mistakingly took the wheel weight and tire off instead of the outer ring and tire. Glad I was not in its way, had to lift it onto trailer with skid steer. I have never known him to have any bearing or gear problems. I think they are a lot tougher than what you think.

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HubbardRA
Additional weight on the chassis can put more wear on the bearings. But then we carry roto tillers front end loaders, etc. that have significant weight. An additional 200-300 pounds will probably not make much difference. I have some racks that I have attached to my puller that we can hang the weight on when we need it. It can be tailored to the need. Putting fluid in the tires should not hurt anything, unless the driver is constantly jerking the clutch. There is a lot more inertia in the fluid that has to be spun up when the tractor first starts moving. This puts load on the drivetrain when accelerated quickly. Rod H.

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Woodydel
Here's another reason for letting those tires slip in any season. Rearward Tractor Rollovers Tractor rollovers happen when the center of gravity moves past a baseline of stability, either to the side or the rear of the machine. The center of gravity must be kept within the baseline of stability to keep the tractor right side up. Agricultural tractors will easily tip to the rear when the rear wheels cannot rotate enough to move the machine forward. As the front of a tractor rises and rotates opposite to the rear axle, momentum and engine power work together to keep the tractor body rotating and lifting. The process of a rearward tractor rollover can take as little as three fourths of a second, less than the reaction time of the average worker. Five situations where this can happen are when: the tractor is stuck in mud or snow, preventing the rear wheels from rotating. the rear wheels cannot turn because chains, boards, or other materials are used to improve traction and actually prevent the wheels from rotating. the tractor is climbing a hill that is too steep. The steeper the hill, the more the risk. the clutch is released too quickly with the transmission in a lower gear and the engine running at a high speed. a load is hitched above the drawbar of the tractor.

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Guest
Woody, My partner at work lost his father to an accident on an allis wd. he was skidding logs, they were not far enough off the ground, caught in a frozen rut and the tractor flipped back. Your right, you cant react in time........I have been told this is a common accident....i always make sure i get the front of the load far enough off the ground.... How is your electric tractor coming along???? Doug

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thedaddycat
One of the guys in my scout troop(when we were about 12 or 13) died that way. He was driving the tractor on his dad's farm and got stuck in the mud. Gunned the engine and dumped the clutch, the tractor flipped and crushed him. His dad, who was an EMT with our city fire dept., was there and couldn't do anything to save him.

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roma3112
hi all here is a question for you all, as far sa fluid in the tires go 1) how do you get the fluid into and out of the tires. I dont have the luxury of having an extra set of tires/rims to just have a set for the winter. 2) What type of antifreze do you all use? is it regular automotive or that "RV" winterizing stuff. Oh 1 more thing how much fluid should be used in each tire, i dont have the size handy but its the stock tires on my 3112h. thanks all john

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TBOLT
Buy a fitting made just for that. hosepipe hooks directly to the fitting and it has a bleeder valve to let out trapped air. I have a squirt pump that fits a gear oil bottle and little clear plastic hose that was bought at NAPA for putting gear oil into auto differentials or other hard to get to places. It works perfect for squirting in the antifreeze, lil' hose will slide over valve stem and although the pump won't screw onto jug it will sit down into it. For a farm tractor here in S.C., a gal. of reg. ole prestone or cheaper brand per tire is a gracious plenty. I think I split a gallon between my little A/C tires.I jack up the rear end, put anti-freeze in first, then hook up the hose pipe with the valve stem at 12o'clock , bleeding the air off, youll be able to tell when its full,then you can rotate the tire around to where you want the water level for instance half full for a lower center of gravity.This is my way, possibly not the correct way, but it will work.

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HubbardRA
In our tractor pulling, we require wheelie bars to prevent the machines from flipping over backwards. I have also known some farmers that rigged bars that stuck out a ways behind their tractors when they were pulling heavy objects or snaking logs out of the woods. I personally flipped a garden tractor over backward while pulling a horse drawn type 10 inch bottom plow that my neighbor was controlling. It came up so fast that I couldn't get to the clutch pedal or the key switch, even though I was trying. I rolled off to the side, so I was lucky and didn't get hurt. By the way the tractor was a Dynamark 10 Hp mower with turf tires. It doesn't take much to make one flip. This is the reason I like hang on weights. If I put extra weight on the rear for traction, I will also add front weight to help prevent a flip. Rod H.

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HubbardRA
Terry, I think the point that most people are trying to make is that the additional weight should only be added to meet your needs. If you don't need it, then why haul it around. This is why I was suggesting hang on weights that can be easily removed. There is no direct answer as to how much weight is enough. It is related to the tractor, your weight, the weight and position of the implements that are attached, the terrain on which you are working, weather conditions, etc. None of us would want you to get hurt because you went overboard on traction. I would say try one set. If that is not enough, then add the second set. Just be careful. As I said above, they will flip, even a garden tractor. "Been there, done that, yet survived". I am not talking from conjecture. I have been garden tractor pulling for over 15 years. I used to run an 1100 pound (with me on it) modified garden tractor that had around 85 Hp under the hood. I won the state championship in 1990. I have had lots of experience with weights and traction. Bottom line is "keep those front wheels on the ground" if you don't want to get hurt. If you look closely you will find that many large farm tractors have significant amounts of weight attached to the front to compensate for the additional traction of rear wheel weights or loaded tires. Rod H.

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Dutch
Marion, I’m a believer in using the right equipment for the job. Using a garden tractor, an angled blade should push up to 8” of snow with no problem. Above 8”, a snowthrower is probably a better choice. The way I see it, low tire pressure and chains are more important than extra weight. Extra weight places stress on equipment. Unless you want to win a trophy or break a snow removal record, you just want to keep the wheels rolling.

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thedaddycat
My 3310 weighs almost 1100 pounds with the Johnny Bucket but no counterweight or driver. When I added front wheel weights some folks asked me why. I could lift the front wheels off the ground with the snowplow(electric lift) and wanted to keep the front end down, after all it's impossible to steer when the tires are airborne. This is my "working" tractor, the one I added the support plates to. High weight means high stress on the BGB, and with a full bucket, counterweight with two collar weights and my petite frame I figure the whole rig comes in between 1700-1800 pounds. Even so, I can and regularly do loose traction before I loose power to the wheels through the variable drive. The lug tires will dig a trench if I let them. I have yet to add the chains to the lug tires, but will for snow season.

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Terry9
The first year, I plowed with chains only..........the wet Southern RI snow. Lost traction more than a few times. Last year was a couple of wet snow storms..........the blower in use kept clogging (an issue I think I have resolved). I put on a set of wheelweights and chains to do some rototilling this spring. Still on. The rig this year is a front mounted blower on the 2110, and a counterweight with 2 donuts. I weigh 180. I figure 2 sets per wheel won't harm the axle tubes. Is it less wheelweight than fluid-filled tires? Thanks for all the input so far! Terry

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thedaddycat
As far as weights and fluid go, I run two sets of weights on the rear, front weights, and fluid in all four tires. I have ag tires that I just put on this spring so I have not used them in snow yet, but will put the chains on soon. I tip the scales at 275. Like I said, 1700-1800 pounds with counterweights and a full bucket(I estimate the load in thebucket at 300#). And I still can dig trenches....

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thedaddycat
It almost looks like triples on the rear. I saw some sales literature in a JD shop once with a HUGE tractor on the cover, it had triples all the way around. I'll bet a tank of gas for it cost more than all my tractors combined.....

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PatRarick
Looks like a 4640, and yes, it does look like triples. About 125 gallons of diesel in the main tank alone. Don't know what the reserve tank mounted in front holds, but I would imagine between 125 and 150 Pat

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