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MadMike

Painting

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MadMike
The Prep work is complete. On my 2012 I have disassembeled, sandblasted, cleaned, and primed with 3 coats, everything form the BGB forward, including the frame. I have used the Ace Hardware Rust Stop primer for this. For paint on the rims, dash, and grill I used Rustolum Almond as suggested by others here, that was easy. The hard part will be painting the rest as I have no experience using spray guns. (I have borrowed a gravity feed gun from a guy at work who regularly paints cars, unfortunately he doesn't have the time to help me out before the snow flies) The paint for this will also be Ace Hardware Rust Stop, the Tractor and Implement Paint. For color: Allis Chalmers Orange which seemed a little to orange when compared to frame color from under the engine. To fix this I added a little Safety Red of the same brand paint, looks very close now. The big question: Can anyone give me some advice as to how thin the paint should be? I know I can put it in the gun and test spray to get it right, I'm guessing that would be a long process so what I'm looking for is a starting point to get close. I imagine it's better to error to the to thin than to thick side. Thanks in advance for any and all advice. MadMike

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HubbardRA
I'd guess that you should start the first coat at about 50-50 paint-thinner. For the first coat I always added thinner until there was no large glob on the bottom of the stirring stick when it was removed from the paint. This is what I used back when I painted my last car with enamel. The ratios may be somewhat different with some of the newer acrylic and epoxy paints. It is also related to the type of spray gun that you are using. I would suggest trying on some sample material till it looks good. The technique that I have always used is to keep the paint thin at first and spraw a couple of dry(non-glossy) coats till the material is completely covered, then spray a top coat with less thinner to provide the glossy surface. You should allow the paint to dry for 15-20 minutes or until tacky to the touch between coats. The glossy coat is the one that is the most likely to produce runs. Rod H.

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khukman
It's been a while since I sprayed a car, but when I did, the biggest difference that I remember was using or not using a hardener in the paint. Talk to the folks at an auto paint supply house about this. I remember a '76 Pinto that I painted that you could have shaved in the finish. Other times, without the hardener, the results were not as good. One other thing to make sure of, is that the temperature of the metal is within the specified range of the paint. If it is too hot, it will dry too quickly and be like sandpaper (been there, done that...). If too cold, that will cause problems as well. The biggest piece of advice, is that given in the previous post -- practice on scrap before you shoot the real thing!!! Good luck! Rob

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Dutch
Mike, Directions on the paint can will provide a good starting point. Until you "know" your equipment and material and can thin (reduce) the paint by "feel", use a viscosity cup. They cost under $5 and are available from any paint store. Here's an example > http://www.lemmer.com/ViscChrt.htm

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MadMike
Thanks for the advice guys. Dutch, I know I need to "know" my equipment to get the "feel", the advice from others who "know" will help me get to the "feel" quicker than I can get to the "know" and "feel" on my own, I hope. I'm not sure if I know how I feel, or if I feel what I know at times, especially after smelling paint and thinner after awhile, you know. My coworker that I borrowed the gun from just told me to bring in my paint and some thinner this week and he'll get me to a good starting point. His advice, dip your finger in the paint and the point your looking for is when you can quickly see your finger print through the paint. How's that for specifically vague. I have all day Saturday and half a day Sunday to paint as my wife and kids will be at her sisters, I'm sure I can figure it out in that amount of time. I'll let you know next week. MadMike

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mowerman1193
I agree with Dutch,Read the can for a starting point.To get real technical about it the temp of the parts you are painting and temp of the air,humidity all make a diff. Most of your Rust Stop and Rustolium paints are oil base and usually want to mix about 3/4 cup paint and 1/4 cup reducer.Also make sure to have some laquer thinner to clean up the gun when you are done. While we are talking about colors I will metion this:My local Ace Hardware has a machine to match paint exactly as the color you take in to them and it is Rust Stop brand paint.They also have a hardener for the Rust Stop paint to make it more durable(help against faiding ect.)might be worth checking into. mowerman1193

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MadMike
mowerman 1193, I also agree with you and Dutch, the problem is that Tractor and Implement paint advises not to thin their paint, if possible, as they expect most people to apply it with a brush or pad applicator. In regards to hardener, most people I have talked to have told me that this will increase the drying time by a huge amount, from hours to days. From what I have gathered from hardeners, you have around eight hours to use the mix before it's trash. (This obviously does not jive with the drying time, so I'm not sure what to believe) Any advice on this would be appreciated. Paint color: The Ace near me has that option also, I didn't feel like taking in my entire frame for a match. I talked about paint color with what's listed as the oldest Simplicity dealer in the state of Michigan, a dealer since the late 50's I believe. The older gentlemen there advised that the color is redder than Allis Chalmers Orange offered by most paint labels today, in fact I believe he even referred to the 60's era color as Simplicity red. What I did was add the Safety Red a little at a time and kept painting samples until I was very close, in the end I added about 2/3's of a quart of Safety Red to a gallon of A/C Orange. Thanks, MadMike

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Dutch
Mike, I would advise any inexperienced painter NOT to use a hardener (I'm sure some other members may disagree). Here are a few hints. 1) Use the PROPER reducer (read the paint can). 2) Consistency must be "sprayable" (slightly thicker than water - too thick it will spit out of gun - too thin it will run easily and won't cover). 3) 40-50 PSI at GUN. 4) Room temperture 60-80 degrees. 5) Adjust spray pattern on piece of scrap. 6) First coat = light mist - let set till slightly tacky. 7) Second coat = full wet - let set till slightly tacky. 8) Third coat (if needed) = full wet. 9) Gotta' run? (pull it off with sticky side of masking tape) 10) Don't move gun in arc with wrist motion (keep constant distance from metal)

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MadMike
Dutch, Come on now, you say not to use a hardener but won't explain why? That's like telling a joke with no punch line. Either way, I will not be using a hardener, especially since I just got off the phone with the Ace Hardware paint guy and was told they had a recall on all of the hardener. Removing drips with masking tape, good advice that unfortunately I'm sure I'll have to use. The only advice I may not be able to adhere to is the temperature range, I'll be somewhat at the mercy of Mother Nature. Luckily for me the forecast calls for decent weather this weekend so I'll be close to 60. Thanks, MadMike

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UCD
Mike The use of a hardener will decrease the drying time. when you use a hardener you need a good respirator not just a dust mask. The use of a hardener will give a better paint job and if you get a run you can wet sand or color sand as some call it and buff it out. Different paints use different hardeners. Straight enamel paint never dries completely, making it impossible to wet sand or buff and get a good job. This & $1.00 might get you a small Coffee Maynard aka/UCD

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RonT
Mike, I have been painting cars,boats,and etc. for about 15-20 years. I will not tell any one not to use a hardner in the paint. It will cause it to take longer to fuly cure but it should be tack or dust free in a shorter period of time than if it wasn't used and will be harder in the long run and keep the gloss longer. As far as reducing the paint (never used that type of paint) Most paints these days use a ratio (4:1) rather than a precentage. The less reducer you use the more gloss you will get. It will also be a little harder to get those pesky runs. If you need to make a ratio mixing stick use a wooden stick and make a mark every 1/2" then use a hack saw to make a notch in the stick so that it is easer to see when in the mixing cup. I wish that more guys would concider an automotive paint for there projects it is much more durable than a hardware type paint. There are some generic type of auto paints that are very good and inexpensive. One example is Omni wich is made by PPG it cost me for two quarts of paint, the hardner and reducer about $55 for it all . Well I have rattled on long enough. Just my two cents! PS. Use a respirator and rubber gloves PLEASE!! Ron Thomas #3

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mowerman1193
I Agree with you RonT about the auto paint.I also have been painting cars for about 15 years and been around it all my life as my father and older brothers ran a body shop out of our garage. I would use the hardener if you can.It will increase the dry time alot especially in the cooler weather.If you mess up you can sand it back down and redo it in a week or so but without the hardener you will have to wait probably at least 4 weeks if not longer.And they are right use a resporator.I would use the resporator anyway.Never hurts to be safe than sorry.Some people have allergic reactions to paint even through the skin.(mostly the harsh automotive paint though). I disagree with Dutch about the 40-50 PSI at the gun.All guns are different some are HVLP(high volume low pressure) and some are'nt.The gravity feed guns do not require the high pressure that a suction feed guns do.Ask the guy that owns the gun what pressure he use's.Also I would recommend mixing the paint and reducer in a separate container with the gravity feed gun.Because the first oz. of paint wont get stirred up good enough as it goes clear down to the spray nozzle and sits there.You can stir all you want in the cup but what goes down into the gun wont get mixed. MadMike I see you are from Michigan too.I looked in your profile to see where but I did'nt know where the town you live in was.I am from the Battle Creek area. Good luck, mowerman1193

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thedaddycat
Mowerman, my folks are in Hastings. Maybe we can arrange a meeting next time I'm out that way. I always like putting a face to the names I see here. I had a great time at the Brooklyn event meeting all the guys.

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BrownA
The one thing I don't know if it was mentioned is, when I use to do a lot of back yard body work I always drained the moisture / water built up out of the bottom of my air compressor before painting. I also used two different filter water seperators between the air tank and the air line. I think clean compressed air is important to the life of a paint job. They also make small in line filters you can put on the air hose before the gun. I would disagree with your friend sticking his finger in the paint as we all have oils in our skin which can contaminate your paint. Good luck with the paint job, Al

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mowerman1193
thedaddycat,That would be nice to meet up with you next time you are in the area.I have met about 6 different members from the area.It would be cool to have a get together in my area. Al, thats a very good point about the inline filter and draining the tank if you dont have a drier system.Also another one I should have mentioned is its a good idea to wear safety glasses when pouring the paint and thinners.Those reducer,and thinner can's could use a vent on the opposite side of the spout.When they are full they like to splash all over. mowerman1193

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MadMike
To all, Thanks for the advice, looking back I probably should have gone with an automotive paint, a little late for that as I already have the other. I suppose if I don't get the results that I'm hoping for I could always redo the tractor again. The second time around should be much quicker. Ron T, It seems that PPG paint sure is popular with everyone I've talked to. If (hopefully not) I have to do this again, it will be the automotive finish and I'll schedule it with someone who has lots of experience in painting. mowerman 1193, I live in little town (Gaines) just Southwest of Flint, near Fenton and Linden. Rural farm area with luckily some decent size tracts of land still, not for long though I'm sure. I actually grew up in Howell. A get together with other club members would be fun. BrownA, Definitely plan to do my mixing before loading the gun hopper and I do have an inline filter on my compressor. Thanks again to all, MadMike

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