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CarlH

Spout Rotator ??'s

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CarlH
In recent posts SmilinSam and UCD have made oblique references to the use of a GM power window for the Mfg #1690116 Spout Rotator. I have been looking at the tech pubs and parts list for the rotator. I also looked at the 'How To' for the Pow'rMax rotator. It seems that it should be fairly straightforward to acquire such a motor and fabricate most of the parts to add this convenience to my snowblower. However, I have a question or two about using the power window motor. At the moment I don't have one in my auto parts pile to examine. As I recall, most of these have a gear on the right angle output shaft. My questions concern how I couple the power window motor output shaft to the shaft with the wire cable that turns the spout? Is the gear removable? If so, I can fabricate some sort of coupler with a hole for a roll pin. If not, what do I use? Thanks Carl

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CarlH
Thanks Kent. If the power window motor output shaft has a removable gear, I will do something like that. However, if the gear is NOT removable, I will need some guidance for a Plan B. I suppose I could make a coupler with an axial hole on one end the size of the gear OD and drill and tap the coupler for some setscrews.

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UCD
Carl The gear is removeable. there is one other piece that is not shown in the spout rotator diagram. I will see if i have another one with that piece and take a picture of it. Or maybe sam could get a picture of his. If i remember right it just sets in place of the gear and the collar you see in the diagram goes on it. The motor in the diagram is a right side GM power window motor. A left side will work but sticks out to the right instead of toward the center. Most GM cars in the 70's and 80's had this style motor. I have another motor but I don't think I have another adapter that goes on the gear shaft.

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CarlH
Maynard, It appears that the hub (ref # 10 above) is no longer available from Simplicity. Most of the rest of the parts ARE available. It should be fairly easy to make an equivalent coupler.

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SmilinSam
Thats right Maynard. The gear is part of a plate that has tabs on the back that the motor drives against. You take the plate out that has the gear on it and replace it with a plate that has the stub shaft that the collar (part 10 in the diagram) goes on. I am going to make another setup for my other blower. I paln on using the existing gear type plate on the motor unit and working form there over to the shaft. Should be able to scratch build something. Its not a high speed device so precision fitting is not terribly important.

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mountainwayne
I did some checking and found out that the motor for my 9020 snowthrower is from a 79 Chev Caprice, left side. Still haven't had time to get to a wrecking yard to find one. Saturday looks like the day to search.

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UCD
Wayne Any of the power window motors from that era work. They were in all the GM cars except the compacts I believe The motor on the 42" blowers is the right side I don't know about the blowers for the pow'r max tractors. Looking at the motor with the gear faceing away from you the gear case will be on the right for a right side motor and on the left for a left side motor. Either one will work on the 42' blower, just the left side oe sticks out to the right of the mount. The right side goes to the center. It just looks better tucked in.

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KSever
Sam or Maynard, Do you have a close up picture of the rotator on your snowblower unit? Just picked up a 42" blower and a wiper motor and I would like to get an idea of how you mounted this. Thanks, Kris

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roma3112
hmm i think i want one of these on my 42" blower, it sure would clean up the look of te tractor removing that long manual adjuster, and i think it would make operating it easier because i could keep my hands near the wheel and wouldnt have to lean over in the seat while driving. :D I had a few questions on the gm wiper motors is there any concerns as far as weatherproofing them, or are they fairly well sealed up? Also as far as wiring goes i assume reverse is acchieved by sendind 12vpos to a different terminal, and ground is acchieved through the frame, or should a separate ground be run to insure proper operation? one last ? when i go to the parts place i have gatherd that a door motor from say a 79-early 80's gm product should fit, and also that a right side motor would be more desireable. thanks guys john b

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CarlH
I used a power window motor from a '94 Cadillac. It required drilling mounting holes in the bracket in a different pattern but otherwise worked fine. The electrical connector for the motor was $25+ from GM. For this motor, a double pole, center off, momentary switch (available from Radio Shack)was needed since +12VDC and ground had to be swapped. The part number for the hub (ref ID 10) was incorrect in my parts manual. My Simplicity dealer found the right number (174078) for me.

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CarlH
I could have soldered the wires to the contacts on the motor but decided to use a connector instead. The motor I used required both ground and +12VDC applied to the two contacts on the motor. The ground was not supplied through the motor housing. To reverse the motor's rotation, both ground and +12VDC must be interchanged at the contacts. The GM motor that Simplicity uses is grounded through the motor housing. To reverse the rotation of this motor you ground the housing and apply +12VDC to one or the other of the two contacts. [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//uploaded/carlh/Snowblower%203.jpg[/img] I purchased the following from Simplicity: Bracket pn 176104 Hub pn 174078 Bearing Flange pn 174072 I made the control rod from 1/2" rod and 3/4" pipe.

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SmilinSam
Don't have any pics yet. might be able to get one of the kids to get one later. I ran a ground wire to the blower from the tractor frame. This because the ground this because the motors are grounded through the blower frame. I use a HD automotive double pole self centering center off switch rated at 20 amps. Never had luck with the plastic radio shack switches. Your switch just alternates the current from one contact to the other on the motor. I was thinkimng about finding a old socket that would fit on the gear on the motor and welding that to the end of the cable shaft to drive the shaft. HAve not tried it yet.

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johnsup
I have been toying with this idea lately, and thought what would happen if the motor burned up in the middle of the storm ?? So I have been thinking of ways to use the original control arm with the motor being easily taken off and you could use the hand controls....Does this make any sense to you guys???John

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Dutch
John, Your concern not only makes sense to me, but under Murphy's Law that is when the motor will fail. Just like my power lifts, they only fail when I am using them. Usually it's something minor, but a loose wire or leaking fitting requires troubleshooting and servicing in the shop. Your idea of a power rotator with a manual backup is easy to accomplish in several different ways.

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roma3112
guys i priced the motor out at our local store, does 45$ sound like too much to you? carl any chance on you taking some close-ups from 1 or 2 different angles and posting them or emailing me, i like the way you have yours set up and would like to borrow your idea. :D thanks john b

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SmilinSam
I buy mine on Ebay when they show up. Paid $20 for one + shipping. Just bought 4 last week for about $35 shipping included. You could look into the local auto salvage yards as well. Sam

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roma3112
sam/guys i went to the parts place after work they had one off an 81 caprice, the motor had a gear on the end which was driven by the looks of it by some kind of worm gear, so i think if i bought it and took oss the gear all i aould have is an exposed worm gear. I could try hammering on an old socket and tacking it in place, but i was wondering if the motor off another make or model may lend itself to being adapted better. If you or anybody else may know drop me a line. Oh and also the motot the guy had only had 2 terminals i am wondering how reverse would be acchieved, i am only guessing that 12v+ to the 1 terminal goes up and 12v+ to the other for down with the grnd supplied by the frame, but that would be a guess?? any help fellas would be appreciated thanks john b

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CarlH
More pics. [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//uploaded/carlh/SB%2031.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//uploaded/carlh/sb%2041.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//uploaded/carlh/sb%2051.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/club2//uploaded/carlh/sb%2061.jpg[/img]

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CarlH
john b The hub and flange bearing appear to be important parts of this application of a power window motor. They absorb the side loading from the torque of turning the spout. Power window motors do not normally have such a side load. Since the hub (your socket?) attaches to the spur gear of the window motor with 2 allen set screws you may want to leave the spur gear in place.

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SmilinSam
quote:
Oh and also the motot the guy had only had 2 terminals i am wondering how reverse would be acchieved, i am only guessing that 12v+ to the 1 terminal goes up and 12v+ to the other for down with the grnd supplied by the frame, but that would be a guess?? any help fellas would be appreciated thanks john b
John, Thats right. It grounds to the frame and power goes to one term for one direction and to the other term for the other direction.Look at my post above to see where I described it all fully. Sam

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UCD
Carl The gm power window motors are exactly same as the ones sold by Simplicity. The only difference is the drive gear is replaced by the drive hub from simplicity. I have been using them for years The motors from the 70's and 80's are the ones to use as you don't need to run a separate ground wire. Either side can be used.

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CarlH
Maynard, The hub I got from Simplicity slips over the spur gear on the window motor. It is held in place by 2 set screws. It must be different from the ones you are using. This hub would not work if the spur gear were removed. I am fairly sure the gear OD size on the 90's GM window motor I am using is the same size as the 70's to 80's you are using. However the wiring goes is kind of moot since 2 wires are needed from the switch to the motor in either case.

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