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Hacking

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Dutch
The “Easy removal gas tank” thread > http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11587 inspired this post. According to the dictionary, “Hack Job” is work, repairs, or modifications performed in a crude or unskillful manner. Apparently some people believe any deviation from an OEM design is “Hacking” no matter how neatly the modification is performed. 1) Is replacing an Onan engine with a Honda or Briggs engine in a Powr’Max tractor “Hacking”? 2) How about notching a frame to accept a twin engine where a single cylinder engine was factory installed? 3) How about cutting slots in a mower deck belt cover for easier removal for cleaning? 4) How about adding plating to reinforce a frame for loader use? What’s your definition of “Hacking”?

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dlcentral
I like to use the term ruby-ba-golboig,ing some hacking is for good purposes,, however!!when you weld a f&&&gin piece of railroad tie plates on the back of a Homey-lite[like the fine specimen I have here,,] for a hitch THAT takes rube-ing to the next level,,!

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gregc
Definition of "Hacking"? I'm not sure I could exactly explain it as pertaining to tractors. There is a point at which I might call a modification hacking, but that point may vary from one instance to another. An improvement to one person may be a hack job to another. Let's not give the design engineers too much credit, they don't think of everything and cost issues also play into how far a design is taken. I'm sure that all of us have different or better ideas about how something could be changed on these tractors to improve them. I use my tractors and am going to continue to make changes to them to make them more useful to me but I try to give every change careful thought and don't just fly into it. Some people may want to keep thier tractors as original as possible and that's great for them if that's what gives them satisfaction. "Hacking"?.....It's relative. Greg

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roma3112
I would tend to be of the mindset that if the modification does not compromise saftey, or the structural integrity of the machine then who cares. Granted if you notch out metal to allow you to remove your tank, in theory are you weakening the overall structure yes, functionally how long would you have to operate the machine to realize or create any other damage, maybe quite a while. I guess if a guy has a machine he loves to use and he makes a mod (safe one hopefully) that increase the functionality or enjoyment of the machine then go ahead. Just please no fuzzy dice or rackoon tails :)

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SmilinSam
I use the word Cobble. <1: to mend or patch coarsly 2: to make or put together roughly or hastily> Dave, the guy who had your Homelite must have relation out here in the midwest, I had a B-series machine once that had railrod spikes welded into it for filler in the gaps he made on the tractor frame. The same tractor had big holes cut into the side of the frame with a torch to acces the the components he couldn't get to without taking the tractor apart. Poor people have Poor ways... There are just some folks who shouldn't be allowed near a welder OR a torch.....

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arjr111
I like Gregs answer....and would add that, some people are in the collecting zone. They think of their machines a little differently, than those that really need to get the work done.

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PatRarick
My opinion of "hacking" is altering something beyond restoration, with no regard as to how it looks. Personally, I hate to cut and weld an original piece, but sometimes, such in repowering, it has to be done. I like to cut and weld so the the alteration looks "factory", or "original". If the alteration is such that it can't be restored, I like to find a replacement part to keep on hand just in case I want to restore the unit to original. Doing something so it looks right is not as much a matter of money as a matter of time. In the example of cutting out the fuel tank saddle, that is not a big deal. You can't see it. If you want to restore it to original, a piece can be welded in and finished. If I were to make such an alteration, I would weld in a piece of split tubing or angle iron to create a recess for the fuel outlet and line. It would serve no purpose other than appearance, but would look like the unit was made that way. Pat

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dirtsaver
I understand both the "restoration" and the "improvement" groups. My tractors are workhorses so I admit to adapting them for greater flexibilty for the jobs I do. Having said that, I believe "hacking" falls into a whole other ballpark. We all have seen work that was so rough and ugly, not to mention unsafe, we wouldnt even do to a Murray or MTD. Like Pat, if I alter a part I use a salvage part to build and keep the original in storage. Any change made can be reversed if needed. And always, before a change is made all angles of safety are examined. Sometimes you just have to modify to get the job done. Larry

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powerking_one
Touché, Pat, Larry: Mods done that look "factory" I'm in agreement with. If one want's to hack a component for customization or convenience reasons, that's OK too in some cases (IMHO here). Having a spare unmodified component or subassembly to restore it back to orginal is an imperial idea I concur with. Regarding re-powering tractors, I too have done this. The million dollar queston for me though is, can I/could one do this without making it prohibitive to restore back the orginal type engine if desired? Tom(PK)

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Woodydel
Examples of Hacking (all on one tractor). This is a Cub Cadet Original! 2 Welded on brackets to seat mount and to rear of transmission. [img]http://members2.photofun.com/woodydel/iTOOLImageGallery/cadetrear.jpg[/img] Homemade battery box welded to chassis.Wrong lift handle welded to homemade battery box.Tank moved from over engine to where battery should be (under the new tank location). Hand bent baffle over tank (safety measure?) [img]http://members2.photofun.com/woodydel/iTOOLImageGallery/cadettankand%20lift.jpg[/img] Grill removed and replaced with welded in steel bar and fiberglass headlight mount screwed to cast iron grill frame but no lights ever installed. [img]http://members2.photofun.com/woodydel/iTOOLImageGallery/cadetfront.jpg[/img]

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arjr111
How about this one from the Gallery, belongs to W. Jordan. 7 to 12hp modification on a B-207, looks like nice workmanship, but certainly pretty radical. Can't really call it a B-207....maybe a B-207+7. [img]http://www.simpletractors.com/images/gallery_images/wj_B2071_small.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.simpletractors.com/gallery/big_bad_b207.htm[/url]

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dyehrd
I personally undestand both sides of this dilemna. My father had a 67 Landlord that was modified for his benefit that could never be returned to original, but i would never call it "Hacking". He was a pipeline welder / fabricator by trade so you can imagine the mods. Rear axles were welded solid (homemade posi-trac....worked great. Homemade dump bucket mounted on the front. Homemade electric lift built from an electric motor from a 64 T-Bird. A starter installed from a 65 Volkswagon along with the steering box. All these things would make the restoring inclined to cringe including myself at the time, but looking back i can see the enjoyment he gained from these things and i would love to have that old tractor back today.

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Kent
I personally think you can go to extremes in either "keeping it stock" or "making modifications" just as you can for cars.... A perfect example is not only having the "right engine" but also matching serial numbers. For the serious collector/show person, this is very important -- for the typical owner/user, a good-running motor is the goal.... Who's right and who's wrong? IMO, they're both right....

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dyehrd
Good point Kent....i have 2 numbers matching cars, and it really means nothing to me that they are though it increases their value on the market should i ever be so inclined to sell them. If I ever took the notion to, however, i would not hesitate to make whatever modification i chose to. I just never thought of garden tractors falling into a serious restoration category, though i enjoy keeping mine original looking and in good working order. I just never knew this level of interest was out there...course i never knew about this site until just a few weeks ago.

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thedaddycat
I agree about the different levels of "purity" when talking about these machines. End use has everything to do with what is considered "Outstanding", "Good", or "Fair" condition or quality. There is factory stock, the ultimate goal of restoration taken down to the right bolts and nuts level after 30 or 40 years of use. This is where we find information on things like which hitch had the towing tab welded on top instead of under the cross piece, what year the tranny switched to needle bearings for the axle tube, etc.... Any deviation from factory stock might be considered "Hacking" to a total purist. I switched frames on the 2012 restoration because of the repair to the original frame. It's still perfectly fine to build another tractor on, but fails to make the grade for this type of project. Using it would IMHO be doing a "Hack Job" of it, even more so since I had the other frame right there. Functional modifications abound, anything from trimming sheetmetal for better clearance to the support plates I made for the 3310 fall into this category. I tried to maximize functionality with minimal structural alterations or visual impact on the tractor. Did I do a "Hack Job" on the 3310? You've seen it happen in my other posts about that project, you tell me. One of the biggest reasons I won't be putting the twin into the 7114 is that I don't like having to modify the frame that much. I may still take a closer look at puting the hydraulic pump on the front of it. Like the above 207, it will require modification to the front end. If I do it, I hope it comes out as well at that one did. I think a hack job is more like the shroud on the 2012, just cut in two. No concern for straight lines, clean welds, smooth edges..... those things point towards a "Hack Attack" more than anything, I think.

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dlcentral
Here she is Sam!lol,, enjoy all,,guy musta worked on RR!http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/PhotoLoft/Asset20/2002/12/23/10233/10233518_0_2042.fpx,0,0,1,1,512,384,FFFFFF Also have a nice Deutz 916H minus eng hydro lift and hydro pump for parts here,have also seat pan,no seat RUBE FREE!lol,,8)http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/PhotoLoft/Asset20/2002/12/23/10233/10233519_0_3645.fpx,0,0,1,1,512,384,FFFFFF

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Terry9
I have only one now,69' 2110, but thats always been the one that I've worked. I try to keep things stock if at all possible. Thats me. The 66 Landlord 101 I sold was a show piece, reason is another story, but it went on ebay this past Aug to a gentleman from FL. Yes, he came to pick it up.

The Port side

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Guest
I find "hacked" stuff interesting, ive seen stuff on large farm tractors that i couldnt believe, poor weld jobs, homemade seats, loaders, the most ive seen are "reinforcments". Fun to see what people will do in a pinch. Are the junkyard wars guys hackers? Doug

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davejs
My biggest concern with hacking is seeing these MORONS telling people their work is correct. Case in point pop rivet in a patch on a car fill it and say new metal was replaced. Or the hacks Epoxy metal to metal because some factories are now doing it. These IDIOTS are NOT the factory. Since when are DOLTS smarter then structrial engineer who knows that the parts could be the keystone of a unibody car?

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dirtsaver
Dave that's another good point. When hacking serves as a way to cut corners then cheat someone out of their hard earned cash by covering up the nasty mess and passing it off as "professional" the bums ought to be hung in the courthouse square on Saturday morning!! Larry

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fredwood
Having worked on various farms over the years, most hack jobs are done to finish the job at hand in the most expedient manner. Most farmers or commercial entepenors are not interested in purity. I have personaly hacked many a machine in my time. Only now that mygarden tracters are used for fun do I worry about factory upgrades. Just my two cents worth. Fred Wood

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