Hacking

[Stoneheartfarm]

A hack job would be a Mad Max vehicle, not the Batmobile. :D Hmm, if I paint my AC black and weld batwings on it, you think I can get a spot in one of the movies? Maybe the butler can be mowing the lawn on it. :D S

[thedaddycat]

Just in case any of you have the mistaken impression that I've become an Ultra-Purist, that is definitely not the case. I have several tractors that work hard. I love taking the Putt-Putt out and plowing snow with it. When the folks ask how old and learn it's a 1961, I get to see a lot of wide eyes... lol. I also have one current project that isn't needed to "work the fields", so to speak. I got it for $60 intending to use it for parts to rebuild a Landlord(9 HP) I had in turn gotten for parts, mostly the rear wheels. It wound up that the 2012 was a prime candidate to do a complete restoration on, rather than a source of parts to cobble together the other machine. The Landlord became the source of parts. Since I have three other tractors to use as needed, I have the luxury of taking my time with this one. I can get into as much detail as I want to, or as little. With such a low initial investment, I also have the lattitude to spend maybe another $400 or so and still get my money back with no trouble. Here's a link to that story. http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10273&SearchTerms=2012 http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10303

[BLT]

If you restore a machine for show, you would want to keep it as close to original as possible and the hardest work it will see is loading and unloading it and you would die if someone put a fingerprint one the clear coat finish. That's one side of the coin. If you get an old machine clean it up, repair it where possible,maybe install a newer engine, paint it and then put it back to work, so what's the big deal? You have to admit that there has been some unique modifications to the factory originals. I'll also be the first to admit that I have seen some, that to me looked very "butt ugly". It's value might or might not be enhanced and that's up to the owner. I guess you have to remember that "Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder". That's my flip side of the coin. Also in some cases, "hacking" as Dutch wrote in his first, has led to product improvement at times.

[aokpops]

I do the best I can with the tools I have . with enough tools you could build a new tractor . I don,t think anyone will buy that many tools but you never know . just saying that to some it mite look like hacking . but if it works good an holds up it could be a work of art even if it looks bad . latter pops

[HubbardRA]

Steve, I don't currently have a digital camera. I probably will not do a step-by-step write-up like "DaddyCat" did. Remember, I'm just painting and bolting some parts together. I am not doing a restoration, or re-build. I will post pictures when finished. By-the-way, I got the tranny bolted into my 710 chassis. Had to assemble the side plates onto my BGB. PTO is hooked up, Gear shift is hooked up. Clutch pedal is hooked up. Rear hitch is installed. Front axle and wheels are installed. It may become a 713S since I got a 13 Hp B/S with the parts. I am trying to find a head, since there wasn't one on it. I'll post pictures when finished.

[Stoneheartfarm]

Rod, Half the fun is keeping the darn thing running. The other half is watching everybody else doing the same. (That's how you know you're not crazy :D) Steve

[dyehrd]

Rod i would certainly not consider that hacking. It may even be considered a work of art to some......for some, metal is their medium.....Hacking, by whatever determination is objective at best and in the eyes of the beholder. As some have said....if it is well thought out and safe, then Who cares.....your enjoyment should be paramount. To place design engineers in a class to themselves as being the ones reserved to make ultimate decisions on appearance or structural integrity is ludicrous. They are human and prone to make oversights or mistakes...

[BLT]

Rod I think 10 thru 16 HP briggs' used all the same head if that will help.

[HubbardRA]

BLT I did some checking today. The 10Hp is a smaller pattern. The 13Hp and 16Hp are the same bolt pattern. If anyone has a head that they can spare, let me know. Otherwise I guess I have to build up a Kohler. Dyehrd. I am a design engineer by profession. I design gun and ammunition components for the U.S. Navy. I do not consider any of my designs or modifications to my tractors to be hacking, even though I don't own anything that has remained stock. The one I am putting together will require a knowledgeable person to determine that it is not stock. For all practical purposes it will be a 700 series AC. It probably will not have all of the factory stickers.

[Kent]

Rod, I have a spare one off a 12-16HP, but I need to check it out -- it may have been shaved for use in a pulling tractor.... Kent

[PatRarick]

The head from the 12 to 16 horse is the same bolt pattern. If I'm not mistaken, there is a difference as far as combustion chamber size. All will work, but there would be a slight difference in power. Pat

[BLT]

Just checked the Briggs parts book. 12 thru 16 use two heads, 211981 after 06/75 and 211889 B-4 06/75. The newer number just showed up on the 16 and that might have an external mounting boss for something.

[PatRarick]

The later heads did have a threaded boss on the head which was used for a bracket on the muffler. Haven't paid attention, so I don't know if the earlier heads had that boss. If the boss was added later and the part number was changed to reflect that addition, there must have been a change in the compression ratio at the same time. I rebuilt a 16 horse for a customer and the original head was warped. I replaced it with a used 12 horse head. The combustion chamber in the 12 horse head was larger than that of the 16 horse. Didn't notice the boss as it wasn't used in that application, but I do know that the head was pre 1975 as it was from a B-212. The engine it was installed on, was a 1980. I was a little concerned that the difference in the combustion chamber size may have an effect on power, but the customer was more interested in saving money. He claims he notices no difference in power. Not sure how he can tell, as the head gasket was leaking and the engine was very worn when he brought it in. BTW, would using that 12 horse head on a 16 horse be considered "hacking"? :D Pat

[cuda70]

as all can see ive got a lot of tools but you never have enough.

[jrosenboom]

FYI: I found a head off a 12 hp B&S on ebay ending in 1 day NO BIDS!..... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20544&item=2084974028 "This is a used cylinder head,it has been glass beaded to clean, and ready to in stall. Removed from a Briggs & Stratton 12HP Synchro-Balanced engine. Model 300421, Type 0127-01. This engine was used in Simplicity and Allis Chalmer garden tractors from the 60s to 70s. B10 type models,simplicity 3212 and others with the hour glass frames."

[HubbardRA]

Thanks for all the help Guys! I put in a bid for the one on ebay. Kent, if I don't get the ebay head, I would be interested in the one you have. I have two shaved Kohler heads, and can work with the shaved head. Could use a double gasket if necessary.

[charby5]

Hi Rod Every thing is the same on these heads except the two noticable raised cooling fins in the center the 32 cube head (16hp) and the chambers are milled differant for flow..

sorry about the bad photography..and the dirty parts. Charby...

[HubbardRA]

Thanks for all the help guys. I bought the head listed on ebay. Going to send him payment tomorrow. It was a 12Hp head.