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JDSnyder

Question on Sundstrand Hydro

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JDSnyder
I have just put another tractor back together. It happens to be a Wheel Horse with a Sundstrand Hydrogear. I had the hydro apart, cleaned it and replaced some broken an worn parts. Now when I engage the belt driving the hydro, control lever in neutral, it starts to slowly pull the engine down until it stalls it. Logic would say the relief valve for the charge pump circuit isn't working, but I had it apart. It is very simple, just a needle valve and a spring, and it seemed to be fine. Any ideas about what the problem might be? Any help from those more experienced would be appreciated. Jeff Snyder P.S. My Landlord 101 is the tractor I use for work, because with it's simple 3 speed tranny, it always runs!

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JP
Hi Jeff, Before you ran the unit, did you 'bleed' the hydro? (Some say prime it) I always pull the spark plugs, jack up the rear & crank it over (while in full forward) until the rear wheels move. JP

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ChrisACB-112
jeff and jim (and anyone else)- I'm planning to use my A/C B112 to do some earthmoving this spring and am concerned about if I might overloading the BGB and Varidrive. To avoid any problems I've been looking into modifying my A/C B112 to use a wheelhorse hydro pump, driven off the engine by a belt, with a hydraulic motor driving a belt into the transmission. With this approach I can eliminate the BGB and Varidrive from the powertrain (two weak spots). I've looked at a C Series Wheelhorse pump and it looks like it would fit into the space below the gas tank where the original hydraulic lift pump would go, and it looks like I could fit a hydro motor into the space between the frame and in front of the transmission. Now I need to consider if all the parts I've described, would work together to accomplish my desired end. For example what is the maximum volume and presure output of the wheelhorse pump. If either of you have any detailed sources for specifications and/or sources for used parts I'd really appreciate any help. Jeff- Was the wheelhorse a hydro? Assuming it was, you have both a landlord (similar to my B112) and have seen the guts of a hydro Wheelhorse. I'd bet you'd have some valuable insights into the feasiblity of my plan. Thanks in advance.

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Kent
Chris, I just wanted to clarify that my concerns with the BGB don't relate to its ability to handle and transfer the power from the engine to the drive wheels that's needed to do stressful work like dozing, using a Johnny Bucket or loader. My concern with the BGB is that it is THE key structural member of the the tractor's frame, joining the front half of the tractor to the rear ... Four bolts connect the front frame of the tractor to the BGB, and the associated rear frame rails are then bolted to the BGB. This "junction" uses grade 5 bolts that hold a "butt joint" into a cast BGB... There's several sets of pictures/topics posted that show how this has cracked the rear cross-plate in the front frame where it connects to the BGB, another showing a BGB with chunks broken out, and several reports of these bolts coming loose (or breaking, in my case).... I don't really see the connection of the frame rails to the BGB being a weak point, since the frame rails "strap" onto the side of the BGB, it's the front "butt joint" that's the weak spot, IMO. So, you'd still need to address how the front and rear frames of the tractor connect, IMO.... In comparison, Cub Cadets used a full-length frame, as did (I think) the early JDs....

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ChrisACB-112
Thanks Kent. I think you point out another area I hadn't considered. I was mostly focused on avoiding an internal failure in the gearbox by routing power to the wheels past it thru the hydro. Seems the BGB and Varidrive work great and reliably with normal workloads. However I suspect we could explain most BGB failure if we considered when they were either neglected (oil) or overloaded. Of course, now I need to ask if my planned approach would simply move the workload to a different, equally vulnerable, implementation. An axial pump is not as strong as a basic gear pump, but the variable displacement of the axial pump, combined with the ability to drive a 3 speed gearbox, could be a pretty tough set-up.

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EDS
JP, I would be very careful just pulling the spark wire off the plug on a Kohler engine with electronic Ignition. It is very easy to distroy the electronics by over voltage. Always connect a grounded spark plug to the wire. I might be a good idea to shut off the gas Too.

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thedaddycat
The Problem..... http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=7096&SearchTerms=support,plate The Solution...... http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=9173&SearchTerms=support,plate

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Jonjacobson
i've been throwing around the idea of a conversion of this sort with my 2012. using the hydro rear end and rear frame from my farm king 16 . cut the frame off just ahead of the hydro fan, and build a plate that will bolt to the holes where the front of the bgb mount. modify the farm king drive shaft to the correct length. trying to devise a way to do this while keeping the 2012 so i could return it to original. driving the implements seems to be the biggest hangup. course anything i don't use could also be spare parts for the b-10!

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JDSnyder
JP, Thanks for the suggestion of priming the hydro. I will give that a try, Although, if I move the lever to forward before the engine stalls, it will move forward. It will not move in reverse, however. Chris, I think the hydro system you are looking at from a C model Wheel Horse is probably a separated, piston-to-piston system, with the pump and the hydro motor separated and the fluid moves from the pump to the hydro motor through tubes or hoses. My Wheel Horse 875 is the very first hydro for them and it is a single system, the pump is connected through a valve body to a hydrogear motor, not a piston motor. I think the pumps would be similar in size, though. I think fitting the pump into the area under the gas tank for the hydraulic lift pump would be tight. Another thing to consider with the tight area is room for cooling air to circulate and how you might mount a cooling fan. Specs for my pump say it is not supposed to run hotter than 180 degrees. Having that much heat right under the gas tank might tend to boil the gas. Where would you mount a cooling reservoir. My Wheel Horse uses the entire transaxle as a cooling reservoir. It is finned to accomodate cooling and the fluid serves as the gear lubricant. Just some thoughts. Jeff Snyder

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